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Is type 2 reversible with Prof Roy Taylor

I have reduced my testing frequency so don't bother after breakfast most days or pre lunch as I tend to eat the same things then and know what they do. Ill test new stuff and if I feel a bit low. It can get obsessive and it is about getting a firm grip on it initially then learning to relax a bit when and where you can. I do sometimes wonder if my focus on controlling it is because I feel guilty for having eaten my way to diagnosis , given that I knew I had a genetic susceptibility to it and losing weight and getting good results is a way of making amends to myself , and family and shoeing my health care professionals who I'm sure just saw another fat lazy tyoe 2 who got what was coming., that I can help myself.
 
cold ethyl said:
I use my exercise bike much the same way.. I'll have a few wholemeal chips ( oven baked with skin potato wedges) and then do 20 minutes at 1 hr to bring me down. It's really only spuds I miss as bread and pasta have other adverse effects so best forgotten about - I may have a small jacket spud soon, just to see. It's all about finding a balance and at the minute I'm happier not eating many carbs as it's shifting the weight really well. I agree that sometimes we can get caught up in getting the numbers down lower and lower at the risk of inducing stress and making life bloomin hard for ourselves. I'd like to get my HbA1c down to non- diabetic levels if not by next test , certainly one after, if possible and reduce Metformin. It is good to have goals, but I have to remind myself not to get too obsessed and to let them become own goals.
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That is very important,
not to get too obsessed and to let them become own goals.
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@cold ethyl , You have started a good and interesting thread, Thanks.
A lot of members have done so well,yet seem to punish themselves with further unrealistic timed targets.
We did not get diabetes over night and it wont go away overnight.
I also take my hat off to Douglas99 as he is conducting a real target and being honest about. we are also being kept up-to-date with his results,on a different thread.
 
Blood Sugar 101 says most doctors believe non diabetics are normally

Fasting under 5.5
1hr after meals under 7.8
2hrs after meals under 6.6

So that is what I am aiming for.
My average across all 3 meals since my last HbA1c in September is

Fasting 5.6
1hr after 7.0
2hrs after 6.6
Bedtime 5.3

I call that a result! I don't stress if I get a high 1 hour reading (and I sometimes do) providing at 2 hours I am down to mid 6's, no matter where I start. My problem is, although I do come down to mid 6's at 2 hours I tend to stay in the 6's another hour or so, although I'm down to anywhere between 4.6 and 5.5 before my next meal.

I find it interesting that not too long ago my 2 hour averages were higher than my 1 hour ones, so things are improving somewhere without meds..
 
Thanks. I think the rub is the word normally. I need to dig out one of the links @phoenix posted that looked at the range of blood glucose levels in non diabetics. I rarely go above 6.5 at 2hrs and spend most of day in low fives ( usually mid 4s before dinner) so I'm happy with those figures. I guess what I am asking/ saying really badly is how often and how high might a non diabetic spike after a heavy carb meal and still be maintaining a non diabetic H bA1c. And really even then, you'd want to know that they remained non diabetic all their lives and were not slipping slowly into pre diabetes etc. I am out sitting in coffee shop with time on my hands. Can you tell?
 
Thank you for the lecture summary which I found very useful. Just one question which no one else seems to have asked. Did the professor give any indication how we could calculate our personal fat threshold ?
 
Not really. I suspect the answer would be having one of his MRI scans showing the visceral fat on our organs.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Blood Sugar 101 says most doctors believe non diabetics are normally

Fasting under 5.5
1hr after meals under 7.8
2hrs after meals under 6.6

So that is what I am aiming for.
My average across all 3 meals since my last HbA1c in September is

Fasting 5.6
1hr after 7.0
2hrs after 6.6
Bedtime 5.3

I call that a result! I don't stress if I get a high 1 hour reading (and I sometimes do) providing at 2 hours I am down to mid 6's, no matter where I start. My problem is, although I do come down to mid 6's at 2 hours I tend to stay in the 6's another hour or so, although I'm down to anywhere between 4.6 and 5.5 before my next meal.

I find it interesting that not too long ago my 2 hour averages were higher than my 1 hour ones, so things are improving somewhere without meds..
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But bluetit it is that first statement I have a real problem with. I have direct evidence that it is incorrect and so have others on here and if you read the actual data they have made claims that the statistics do not actual bear out and the sample size is really low as well as some of their subjects were outside this. Setting yourself a target is one thing but becoming obsessed over a target that isn't achievable even for all normals on a normal carb based diet is another. Additionally the meal that ate was one particular meal and didnt do a range and type of meals. High fat ones will peak you at 2 hours and not one etc etc. That is why the doctors now like HbA1c and not these sort of targets
 
I've also found I can alter my BG readings by several points, simply by washing my hands, or warming them, or cooling them, or doing a minimal amount of exercise such as running up or down stairs, so I don't have a great faith in some readings. HbA1c is probably more meaningful overall to me as well, so providing the BG readings I have taken are in the region I would expect, I'm happy.
 
Andrew Colvin said:
But bluetit it is that first statement I have a real problem with. I have direct evidence that it is incorrect and so have others on here and if you read the actual data they have made claims that the statistics do not actual bear out and the sample size is really low as well as some of their subjects were outside this. Setting yourself a target is one thing but becoming obsessed over a target that isn't achievable even for all normals on a normal carb based diet is another. Additionally the meal that ate was one particular meal and didnt do a range and type of meals. High fat ones will peak you at 2 hours and not one etc etc. That is why the doctors now like HbA1c and not these sort of targets
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I think that more elegantly says what I've been thinking about all day. Maybe we can say that more often than not a non diabetic hits those targets, but not always and that we have to allow ourselves a bit of wiggle room with some meals. That's not to say a return to high crab eating , but an acceptance that we don't have to beat a target that not all non diabetics are meeting with every meal.
 
I totally agree, @Andrew Colvin and @cold ethyl , 'normal' is a very wide band, and none of us can say with accuracy where our personal 'normal' lies, and keepin low is a hard target which may not be necessary...

But from my perspective, I know my body has a weakness, a predisposition, a design flaw (whatever you want to call it).

So I don't feel that fluttering about on the upper edges of 'normal' would give me enough of a safety zone.
I'm playing a long game here. I don't want to deteriorate, no matter how slowly.

Other people without my glucose intolerance design flaw may romp around in the 8-10s with no problem.

Me? I want to stay under 7 every day. 24/7 365 days of the year. My body has already spent too much time too high. It coped for years. Then it didn't any more. Now I am being kinder to it.

Your mileage will, of course, vary.
 
cold ethyl said:
I think that more elegantly says what I've been thinking about all day. Maybe we can say that more often than not a non diabetic hits those targets, but not always and that we have to allow ourselves a bit of wiggle room with some meals. That's not to say a return to high crab eating , but an acceptance that we don't have to beat a target that not all non diabetics are meeting with every meal.
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Perfectly put both Andrew and Cold Ethyl .We have diabetes so shouldn't we be happy with normal spikes and troughs that a non diabetic gets throughout a day.As long as the diet changes and we eat healthily and stop punishing our bodies whichever method you use it can only be good .I've learnt so much about food in general from this forum .
 
Brunneria said:
I totally agree, @Andrew Colvin and @cold ethyl , 'normal' is a very wide band, and none of us can say with accuracy where our personal 'normal' lies, and keepin low is a hard target which may not be necessary...

But from my perspective, I know my body has a weakness, a predisposition, a design flaw (whatever you want to call it).

So I don't feel that fluttering about on the upper edges of 'normal' would give me enough of a safety zone.
I'm playing a long game here. I don't want to deteriorate, no matter how slowly.

Other people without my glucose intolerance design flaw may romp around in the 8-10s with no problem.

Me? I want to stay under 7 every day. 24/7 365 days of the year. My body has already spent too much time too high. It coped for years. Then it didn't any more. Now I am being kinder to it.

Your mileage will, of course, vary.
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Can I ask Brunneria do you manage that with diet alone ? :-)
 
Andrew Colvin said:
seen it on the other thread - you must feel awful with those numbers
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I feel worse on the meds believe it or not Andrew :D Upset tummy constantly ,sweating,nausea .My body was trundling along just fine and then it sat down in the road and wouldn't move ! It's not doing well in a whole load of areas stupid body ;) Starting to need a loo roll to list my "conditions"
 
yes I was the same - never a day ill - never saw the doctor and had an empty file. It was only because we knew each other that he knew who I was then I went and poisoned myself! If I hadn't would have an empty file still - oh well! What I find though is the doctors have too large a case load to look for the root cause and just treat the symptoms they see and assume. That is one reason why there are so many T2s instead of people with T2 symptoms caused by other reasons. Fix the cause and you might fix the T2 but leave the root cause in place and no matter what it will come back.

However, your numbers are so shockingly high and you have been low carbing that I am shocked. There is definitely something else underlying it. Have you checked your ketone levels when you are high like that?
 
Susiespearish said:
Can I ask Brunneria do you manage that with diet alone ? :)
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So far.

I was given metformin for PCOS years ago - it gave me a horrible metallic taste in my mouth so I was taken off it.

I'm currently on 20 g carbs a day (give or take) for eight weeks, to give my pancreas and liver a rest. and it's bloody hard - I'm currently having mashed potato fantasies! :) Not cravings, but fantasies. With brown sauce of all things!

Last week I was fine. This week I can't wait for the 8 weeks to be over! Lol

The intention is to then very slowly reintroduce carbs til I find the tipping point that takes me above 7. Then live under it.

Will I manage it? Dunno. The last few weeks have been boring food. That's the main problem. Adding a few more carbs will make a huge step towards keeping it sustainable.

In truth, I accept that I may well deteriorate, but I'm going to fight it, and it will take decades, not years. Of that I am adamant. :)

Edited to add: I am on Cabergoline for a benign tumour of the pituitary gland, to suppress the excess production of prolactin that causes... complications, if it gets too high. But not on any diabetic medications.
 
Brunneria said:
I'm currently having mashed potato fantasies! :) Not cravings, but fantasies. With brown sauce of all things!
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Lol conjures up visions of close encounters of the 3rd kind. I expect a dream about a mash potato mountain tomorrow ;)
 
Brunneria said:
I totally agree, @Andrew Colvin and @cold ethyl , 'normal' is a very wide band, and none of us can say with accuracy where our personal 'normal' lies, and keepin low is a hard target which may not be necessary...

But from my perspective, I know my body has a weakness, a predisposition, a design flaw (whatever you want to call it).

So I don't feel that fluttering about on the upper edges of 'normal' would give me enough of a safety zone.
I'm playing a long game here. I don't want to deteriorate, no matter how slowly.

Other people without my glucose intolerance design flaw may romp around in the 8-10s with no problem.

Me? I want to stay under 7 every day. 24/7 365 days of the year. My body has already spent too much time too high. It coped for years. Then it didn't any more. Now I am being kinder to it.

Your mileage will, of course, vary.
Click to expand...

I agree. I know I can never go back to eating carbs like I once did as that is what got me here in first place. Genes, intolerance, bad luck or just greed? I don't know and don't want to push that envelope too far again. My point was more that sometimes we run the risk of getting too stressed about a goal that sometimes even non- diabetics won't meet with a heavy carb meal. I love this place( in so far as you can love somewhere you'd rather not have ever had to join!) but sometimes I read other posts and think why can I not hit that target or why this or that and I think it is sometimes helpful to look at it from an individual level rather than a so called normal, that may not be as normal as they suggest. Indeed that was the thrust of a lot of Prof Taylor's talk - that BMI and such like are largely epidemiological tools and lose sight of the individual and we need to focus on our own fat threshold. I feel pretty rubbish when my BG levels hit under 4.6 as it seems to set my anxiety off and likewise I felt shocking when I was running in the 8s and above long term so I try and stay above one and way below the other. It's all about finding our own balance or mileage as you say.
 
Brunneria said:
So far.

I was given metformin for PCOS years ago - it gave me a horrible metallic taste in my mouth so I was taken off it.

I'm currently on 20 g carbs a day (give or take) for eight weeks, to give my pancreas and liver a rest. and it's bloody hard - I'm currently having mashed potato fantasies! :) Not cravings, but fantasies. With brown sauce of all things!

Last week I was fine. This week I can't wait for the 8 weeks to be over! Lol

The intention is to then very slowly reintroduce carbs til I find the tipping point that takes me above 7. Then live under it.

Will I manage it? Dunno. The last few weeks have been boring food. That's the main problem. Adding a few more carbs will make a huge step towards keeping it sustainable.

In truth, I accept that I may well deteriorate, but I'm going to fight it, and it will take decades, not years. Of that I am adamant. :)
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Nothing wrong with looking after your health .I left it too late but then I am the only person who hasn't had a heart attack in my family yet ! Both my fit ,average weight brothers have in their 40's and my mum was a PE teacher who had her first heart attack at 39 .I had to go and get something different like Diabetes as well to out do them :D Creamy mash with gravy :hungry: It's quite hard to think up things we feel like that are ok isn't it ?
20 grams is so low but i wish you the best of luck !
 
Andrew Colvin said:
But bluetit it is that first statement I have a real problem with. I have direct evidence that it is incorrect and so have others on here and if you read the actual data they have made claims that the statistics do not actual bear out and the sample size is really low as well as some of their subjects were outside this. Setting yourself a target is one thing but becoming obsessed over a target that isn't achievable even for all normals on a normal carb based diet is another. Additionally the meal that ate was one particular meal and didnt do a range and type of meals. High fat ones will peak you at 2 hours and not one etc etc. That is why the doctors now like HbA1c and not these sort of targets
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I'm not sure if you are getting at me personally here, Andrew, but if you are, you are wrong. Yes I have a target. Don't most of us? I am most certainly not obsessed with it. If I were, I wouldn't have homemade meat and spud pie with gravy once a week, as one example. I eat potatoes and bread every single day. If I spike, I spike. I don't sit there worrying about it as long as I come back down again. I haven't given up any food I enjoy except the odd vanilla slice and rice pudding, and I haven't gone to extremes of finding substitutes, but I do eat to my meter as far as carb portions go, which can only be a good thing for general health apart from anything else. There is nothing wrong with having a target as long as that target is realistic for that person. What is unhealthy is obsessing about it.
 
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