Just saw my doc

[satkins]

I just saw my doc to get a new Metformin & coversyl prescriptions renewed as it's been just over 3 months since diagnosis. First thing he says to me is that he's surprised I'm there. Aparently he was sure I wouldn't be back for at least a year if not more. He said most patients are in so much denial that they don't come back until they feel really bad.

Anyway I found out what my first a1c was (7.4). So not extreme but it is concerning. He asked if I was testing twice a week. When he first gave me a script for a tester he only wanted me to test two times days apart. In other words two srtrips a week. When I told him that I test before and 2 hours after a meal he was confused as to why. When I told him that it was the only way to tell if what I ate raised my blood sugars. Told him I found out that any grain based products like breads, cereals, rice sends my sugars high and that I've basically cut out all of them. He said I should have to live like that and that they have medicine to help.

I'll find out in a few days after I get my blood test what my numbers are. I'm hoping that they are low enough that he doesn't prescribe more metformin or any thing else. But I have the feeling I'm going to be stuck with more pills. I have determined that he is not quite current on diabetes. Or he just thinks I really need a sandwich.

BTW I'm done 17 pounds from Feb 17.

 

[Mike d]

He said I should have to live like that and that they have medicine to help.

Another idiot who should just retire or stay away from that field

 

[Sean01]

I've said this recently elsewhere on this site:
Medically qualified people will prescribe medicine as the solution to any problem. It's blinkered and it's wrong.
You don't solve a problem by living with it. You solve a problem by solving it!

Well done on the weight loss.

 

[bulkbiker]

I'm afraid that this seems to be the mindset of lots of GP's. They have to tick the box about pills given.. then they are exempted from blame should anything happen. If you wish to do something outside of their comfort zone they don't encourage it but instead try to get you on ever more medication. There also appear too be financial incentives for them to do this to although finding out about these is very difficult.

 

[KevinPotts]

There's an open minded GP, Mahesh, who a few of us engaged with in one of the threads yesterday.. He was open to evidence based persuasion and to be honest I think he was courageous outing himself in this forum. We need more like him. Congrats on the weight loss, you've done fantastically well.


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[muzza3]

Great result on the weight loss. Perhaps you will educate him eventually by continuing to get improving results. Unfortunately not an unusual response from many in the profession. It will still be your call on the medication if it comes to that and you seem to be in a good position to make that judgement if it is required
Keep up the good work
Cheers

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

I really can't believe the negative attitudes to the medical profession on here - with even suggestions that they are corrupt. Those of us on here trying out this method of dealing with diabetes are defying the perceived wisdom and position of the NHS. There are all sorts of new potentially great protocols and research in all sorts of medical fields and doctors just aren't equipped to find out about all of them and make a judgement. They are, on the whole, doing the right thing by sticking to the agreed advice until new evidence comes along. What we're doing here is NOT providing evidence - it's not controlled, we're all doing slightly different things without having any overall control of who's doing what and how and when. While there are a few people here who have been doing it for years, there's little real evidence of how it's going to work out long term.

We are a self-selected group for a start - all the people who aren't doing this or have tried and failed aren't here for whatever reason, and therefore we won't be able to see the true patterns. It's a bit like only asking lottery winners if it's worth playing.

If doctors reacted by jumping on every health-kick and miracle cure bandwagon that came along with incomplete or poor-quality evidence you'd be complaining a lot more. Doctors are and have to be quite conservative with treatments. What is reprehensible is when new evidence comes along that is conclusive, but is ignored by the medical profession. However convinced each of us might be - and I am convinced at least that currently my BG is low and for now, I'm confident I can keep it low - this doesn't work for everyone. Doctors have been educated to believe that BG control makes no difference, and you can't expect them to start believing patients telling them it's not true - that might sound wrong to you, but imagine being a doctor, patients must come out with all sorts of **** - my neighbour was telling me her doctor wasn't helping with her Asthma, just kept telling her to stop smoking and prescribing the same medication. She 'knew' that smoking had nothing to do with it.

What needs to be done - given the personal experience of lots of us, is conduct a well-controlled and funded study. Doctors will change their opinion, but they need scientific evidence to do that. I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[bulkbiker]

I really can't believe the negative attitudes to the medical profession on here - with even suggestions that they are corrupt. Those of us on here trying out this method of dealing with diabetes are defying the perceived wisdom and position of the NHS.

Ok so you haven't been to see your HCP to be told your Type 2 will get progressively worse and that you will end up injecting insulin and there is nothing you can do about it? If that's the case then I'm afraid you are one of the lucky ones. That was from my Diabetes Nurse when I was diagnosed.... great way to receive such news. Luckily in my case I thought F**k you and found the forum and all the useful info here. My practise oversight Diabetes GP had never heard of Prof Roy Taylor, the Newcastle diet or Low Carb dieting. He was worse than useless. So yes I have very negative attitudes towards some GP's. Others seem to be able to at least educate themselves or are willing to learn.. others are not and assume that they know it all when they obviously don't know much at all.

 

[satkins]

I'm not down on doctors. Lets face it a GP has to know a little about a lot of topics. Enough to know there is a problem then refer to a specialist if needed. My dietitian was all about the food triangle and seemed more concerned with how much I was eating. Now granted I was over eating. I mentioned to them that I was cutting out most carbs including the "healthy" carbs and they didn't know what to say. I didn't mention the high fat part.

I think my doctor like most knows there are medicines that can control type 2 and he doesn't want me to not go with out things like bread and cereals if I don't have to. To him its a standard of living. Also he has probably seen others try and fail diets before. I'm sure I'll be able to wear him down after a year of a LCHF diet.

I did my blood work this morning so we'll see what the numbers say in a week or so. I really hope they are better. I'd like to know that I'm at least on the right track.

 

[kokhongw]

@ChrisSamsDad Yes it is unfortunate that 400 million diabetics worldwide is not a strong enough evidence of the failure of current medical approach to arresting and reversing this condition. While they wait for the evidence...millions more will continue to suffer.

Meanwhile many of us who are not medically trained easily managed or reversed our condition thru carbs reduction and intermittent fasting within weeks...sans medication.

There is a big disconnect between our experience and theirs...

 

[KevinPotts]

@ChrisSamsDad Yes it is unfortunate that 400 million diabetics worldwide is not a strong enough evidence of the failure of current medical approach to arresting and reversing this condition. While they wait for the evidence...millions more will continue to suffer.

Meanwhile many of us who are not medically trained easily managed or reversed our condition thru carbs reduction and intermittent fasting within weeks...sans medication.

There is a big disconnect between our experience and theirs...

Well said


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[Pinkorchid]

I just saw my doc to get a new Metformin & coversyl prescriptions renewed as it's been just over 3 months since diagnosis. First thing he says to me is that he's surprised I'm there. Aparently he was sure I wouldn't be back for at least a year if not more. He said most patients are in so much denial that they don't come back until they feel really bad.

Anyway I found out what my first a1c was (7.4). So not extreme but it is concerning. He asked if I was testing twice a week. When he first gave me a script for a tester he only wanted me to test two times days apart. In other words two srtrips a week. When I told him that I test before and 2 hours after a meal he was confused as to why. When I told him that it was the only way to tell if what I ate raised my blood sugars. Told him I found out that any grain based products like breads, cereals, rice sends my sugars high and that I've basically cut out all of them. He said I should have to live like that and that they have medicine to help.

I'll find out in a few days after I get my blood test what my numbers are. I'm hoping that they are low enough that he doesn't prescribe more metformin or any thing else. But I have the feeling I'm going to be stuck with more pills. I have determined that he is not quite current on diabetes. Or he just thinks I really need a sandwich.

BTW I'm done 17 pounds from Feb 17.

In one way your doctor is right we should not have to live like that and not be able to eat all the foods that we enjoy but until they come up with cure we are stuck with it.. Eating is one of life's biggest pleasures.. well for most people it is...it is the first thing we learn to do when we are born that gives us comfort and contentment.

 

[Totto]

Those of us on here trying out this method of dealing with diabetes are defying the perceived wisdom and position of the NHS. There are all sorts of new potentially great protocols and research in all sorts of medical fields and doctors just aren't equipped to find out about all of them and make a judgement. They are, on the whole, doing the right thing by sticking to the agreed advice until new evidence comes along.

Diabetes has been around for a long time. My dad was diagnosed in 1962, his mum in 1920. During the major part of the 20th century it was a perfectly well know fact that sugar and starch are bad for diabetics. It was also generally know that carbs makes you fat.

I don't give one hoot for the wisdom of the NHS or for any other organisation for that matter that looks to eminence over evidence. All the old studies seem to be flawed with data that didn't fit the theory being left out and when they are reviewed the outcome is very different, particularly regarding saturated fat.

The past decades of fat scare and high carbs is a total health disaster with obesity and diabetes epidemics.

 

[Pinkorchid]

I really can't believe the negative attitudes to the medical profession on here - with even suggestions that they are corrupt. Those of us on here trying out this method of dealing with diabetes are defying the perceived wisdom and position of the NHS. There are all sorts of new potentially great protocols and research in all sorts of medical fields and doctors just aren't equipped to find out about all of them and make a judgement. They are, on the whole, doing the right thing by sticking to the agreed advice until new evidence comes along. What we're doing here is NOT providing evidence - it's not controlled, we're all doing slightly different things without having any overall control of who's doing what and how and when. While there are a few people here who have been doing it for years, there's little real evidence of how it's going to work out long term.

We are a self-selected group for a start - all the people who aren't doing this or have tried and failed aren't here for whatever reason, and therefore we won't be able to see the true patterns. It's a bit like only asking lottery winners if it's worth playing.

If doctors reacted by jumping on every health-kick and miracle cure bandwagon that came along with incomplete or poor-quality evidence you'd be complaining a lot more. Doctors are and have to be quite conservative with treatments. What is reprehensible is when new evidence comes along that is conclusive, but is ignored by the medical profession. However convinced each of us might be - and I am convinced at least that currently my BG is low and for now, I'm confident I can keep it low - this doesn't work for everyone. Doctors have been educated to believe that BG control makes no difference, and you can't expect them to start believing patients telling them it's not true - that might sound wrong to you, but imagine being a doctor, patients must come out with all sorts of **** - my neighbour was telling me her doctor wasn't helping with her Asthma, just kept telling her to stop smoking and prescribing the same medication. She 'knew' that smoking had nothing to do with it.

What needs to be done - given the personal experience of lots of us, is conduct a well-controlled and funded study. Doctors will change their opinion, but they need scientific evidence to do that. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Absolutely what a sensible post. Doctors do come in for a lot of slagging off on this forum when it is not their fault. We can't expect them to openly agree with their patients doing something very controversial that is not the official advice Only a few diabetics are doing LCHF and yes it is a small number taking the overall diabetic population there is who have never even heard of LCHF. Until they are told otherwise about any treatment doctors have to follow the NHS guidelines it is what they have been trained to do
Until proper NHS studies are done on LCHF for diabetics and it will have to be done for a lot of years because they have to know what the long term effects are before they can recommend it and no one knows that yet In the meantime we have to do what we think is best for us personally and stop blaming the doctors for not agreeing with us.

 

[Brunneria]

I have met some good docs and some bad.

As far as I can see, it really comes down to whether they follow rote blinkered thinking, or whether they treat the person sitting in their consulting room as a person, not a number.
If they do that latter, they ask questions, listen, and have a mind that is not closed.

Unfortunately, that approach must be exhausting and lead to burn out much more rapidly than just reaching for the prescription pad and bouncing the patient on to a dietician or a rote-trained nurse.

The ones that really get my goat are the trust me, I am a highly trained superior being, shut up and take the prescription.

I don't do well with those.

Then there is the simple human fact that one bad experience outweighs a good one, and we are much more likely to whinge about the bad than compliment the good. Human nature.

In my experience of... um... 4 general practitioners, 7 practice nurses, and about 12 different registrars and consultants, I find a good v bad ratio of 4:19

It doesn't fill me with confidence for future treatment.

 

[satkins]

I'm really going to reserve judgement for a while. He did say as we where leaving the exam room that he was surprised to see me. He was expecting me to be in denial of the diagnosis, which i was for a bit. He said he normally doesn't see his diabetic patients for over a year after diagnosis with other complications and surgars way higher. The one thing i do get afeeling from him is that he genuinely wants me to "get better." BTW I live in a small town and things do not change fast here.

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[KevinPotts]

Sounds like you could be the pioneer in your small town


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[Dark Horse]

I really can't believe the negative attitudes to the medical profession on here - with even suggestions that they are corrupt. Those of us on here trying out this method of dealing with diabetes are defying the perceived wisdom and position of the NHS. There are all sorts of new potentially great protocols and research in all sorts of medical fields and doctors just aren't equipped to find out about all of them and make a judgement. They are, on the whole, doing the right thing by sticking to the agreed advice until new evidence comes along. What we're doing here is NOT providing evidence - it's not controlled, we're all doing slightly different things without having any overall control of who's doing what and how and when. While there are a few people here who have been doing it for years, there's little real evidence of how it's going to work out long term.

We are a self-selected group for a start - all the people who aren't doing this or have tried and failed aren't here for whatever reason, and therefore we won't be able to see the true patterns. It's a bit like only asking lottery winners if it's worth playing.

If doctors reacted by jumping on every health-kick and miracle cure bandwagon that came along with incomplete or poor-quality evidence you'd be complaining a lot more. Doctors are and have to be quite conservative with treatments. What is reprehensible is when new evidence comes along that is conclusive, but is ignored by the medical profession. However convinced each of us might be - and I am convinced at least that currently my BG is low and for now, I'm confident I can keep it low - this doesn't work for everyone. Doctors have been educated to believe that BG control makes no difference, and you can't expect them to start believing patients telling them it's not true - that might sound wrong to you, but imagine being a doctor, patients must come out with all sorts of **** - my neighbour was telling me her doctor wasn't helping with her Asthma, just kept telling her to stop smoking and prescribing the same medication. She 'knew' that smoking had nothing to do with it.

What needs to be done - given the personal experience of lots of us, is conduct a well-controlled and funded study. Doctors will change their opinion, but they need scientific evidence to do that. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Excellent points, eloquently put.

 

[LincolnLizzie]

I'm not down on doctors. Lets face it a GP has to know a little about a lot of topics. Enough to know there is a problem then refer to a specialist if needed. My dietitian was all about the food triangle and seemed more concerned with how much I was eating. Now granted I was over eating. I mentioned to them that I was cutting out most carbs including the "healthy" carbs and they didn't know what to say. I didn't mention the high fat part.

I think my doctor like most knows there are medicines that can control type 2 and he doesn't want me to not go with out things like bread and cereals if I don't have to. To him its a standard of living. Also he has probably seen others try and fail diets before. I'm sure I'll be able to wear him down after a year of a LCHF diet.

I did my blood work this morning so we'll see what the numbers say in a week or so. I really hope they are better. I'd like to know that I'm at least on the right track.

I feel the same, my doc is great, and pretty current but he didn't agree with lchf he thinks I should be ok with low GI, but I know I'm not. Im cutting outbasic starchy carbs, bread, pasta, rice and wheat - and what a difference it makes. For the first time in 12 years my readings are generally coming in in the target range. I guess the thing is that we should all take responsibility for our own health and be pro-active Thank goodness for all the
help and advice coming through this forum.


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[satkins]

Just wanted to post that I haven't seen my doc since my blood test which was a weeks ago now. This is leaving me with the thought that nothing has changed in my numbers much. Or he's just really busy. Either way I think I may call the clinic and find out whats going on.