novorapidboi26
Well-Known Member
what level of ketones is acceptable though for a type 1?
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Ketone advice
- Thread starter novorapidboi26
- Start Date
diamondnostril
Well-Known Member
Hi . . .
I think that must be guided by your blood-glucose level.
Ketones can only ever become dangerous in the absence of Insulin. Insulin blocks the creation of new Ketones and prevents any problem occuring.
So if my blood-glucose is normal (which implies adequate Insulin, of course) then I am not worried about any amount of Ketones. Am happy for my little Ketostix to be a very deep purple.
Regards
Antony
novorapidboi26
Well-Known Member
Hi . . .
I think that must be guided by your blood-glucose level.
Ketones can only ever become dangerous in the absence of Insulin. Insulin blocks the creation of new Ketones and prevents any problem occuring.
So if my blood-glucose is normal (which implies adequate Insulin, of course) then I am not worried about any amount of Ketones. Am happy for my little Ketostix to be a very deep purple.
Regards
Antony
So the ketone level gets to a stage where acidity increases and causes damage..........
do you test the blood ketone level....?
diamondnostril
Well-Known Member
Hi Mr 26 . . . I wanted to answer your question, but did not want to derail the thread. I answer now, now that the Posts have tailed off.
A person in dietary Ketosis can expect to have blood ketone levels ranging from 4mmol/l to 10mmol/l. This corresponds to a blood pH level of 7.4.
A person not in dietary Ketosis can expect to have blood ketone levels of approximately 0.1mmol/l. This also corresponds to a blood pH level of 7.4.
In contrast, a person in whom Insulin is absent can expect to have blood ketone levels of more than 20mmol/l (in combination with blood-glucose levels of more than 16mmol/l). This corresponds to a blood pH level of less than 7.3. This is Diabetic Ketoacidosis.
This info was taken from "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald, Page 35.
Presence of Insulin determines the concentration of blood ketones. If a person is producing, or injecting, adequate Insulin to keep blood-glucose anywhere close to the normal range, then blood pH will be maintained at 7.4.
(If you have a different understanding then please let me know! Am interested to learn anything).
I regularly use the Ketonix breath analyzer, and sometimes Ketostix, to check that I am in Ketosis. I get a range of results, from Trace up to High concentrations. The Ketostix colour result suggests that sometimes I'm up at around 8mmol/l or even a bit beyond. But I slide up and down the colour scale. My interpretation of this is that Insulin is doing exactly what it should do! When Ketones get to a certain level, seemingly close to 10mmol/l, the Insulin inhibits formation of new Ketones and encourages excretion of existing Ketones - I slide back down the scale.
Your Post did pique my interest and I started to wonder exactly what blood ketone levels I get. I just requested a meter that can give me an exact measure, to satisfy my new curiosity.
Regards
Antony
A person in dietary Ketosis can expect to have blood ketone levels ranging from 4mmol/l to 10mmol/l. This corresponds to a blood pH level of 7.4.
A person not in dietary Ketosis can expect to have blood ketone levels of approximately 0.1mmol/l. This also corresponds to a blood pH level of 7.4.
In contrast, a person in whom Insulin is absent can expect to have blood ketone levels of more than 20mmol/l (in combination with blood-glucose levels of more than 16mmol/l). This corresponds to a blood pH level of less than 7.3. This is Diabetic Ketoacidosis.
This info was taken from "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald, Page 35.
Presence of Insulin determines the concentration of blood ketones. If a person is producing, or injecting, adequate Insulin to keep blood-glucose anywhere close to the normal range, then blood pH will be maintained at 7.4.
(If you have a different understanding then please let me know! Am interested to learn anything).
I regularly use the Ketonix breath analyzer, and sometimes Ketostix, to check that I am in Ketosis. I get a range of results, from Trace up to High concentrations. The Ketostix colour result suggests that sometimes I'm up at around 8mmol/l or even a bit beyond. But I slide up and down the colour scale. My interpretation of this is that Insulin is doing exactly what it should do! When Ketones get to a certain level, seemingly close to 10mmol/l, the Insulin inhibits formation of new Ketones and encourages excretion of existing Ketones - I slide back down the scale.
Your Post did pique my interest and I started to wonder exactly what blood ketone levels I get. I just requested a meter that can give me an exact measure, to satisfy my new curiosity.
Regards
Antony
novorapidboi26
Well-Known Member
I have no real knowledge of ketosis and that's why I am picking your brain...........
I am just trying to understand at what stage, if any, do ketones present a danger..........so damage to the body, as opposed to the risk of DKA....
only in the absence of insulin.......?
I am just trying to understand at what stage, if any, do ketones present a danger..........so damage to the body, as opposed to the risk of DKA....
only in the absence of insulin.......?
diamondnostril
Well-Known Member
I have no real knowledge of ketosis and that's why I am picking your brain...........
I am just trying to understand at what stage, if any, do ketones present a danger..........so damage to the body, as opposed to the risk of DKA....
only in the absence of insulin.......?
Ah OK, I see what you mean . . . similar to the question of blood-glucose - at what level does it start to damage the body . . .
My understanding is that a Ketone is a healthy and natural energy source for the body, which happens to be slightly acidic in composition. Therefore, Ketones are healthy for the body until such time as their excessive concentration in the blood begins to affect the pH level. So, from this point of view, I think the risk of damage to the body caused by Ketones IS the risk of DKA . . . it's one and the same thing. Insulin regulates ketone concentrations to stop this happening.
Regarding the exact levels, I cannot yet find any resource which tells me a precise mapping between blood ketone levels and blood pH levels. I only have the limited numbers I quoted from the McDonald book. Maybe this relationship is not simple, and depends upon several factors. I'll Post again if I find something on that.
In the meantime, I will certainly use evolution as my guide. If Insulin auto-regulates blood ketone levels to keep them below 10mmol/l, this is likely to be the safe level.
Regards
Antony
Bagpuss Lives!
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When I was in hosp this time last year, I had DKA & concurrent infection which needed surgical removal (2 infected abscesses & 2 op's). The Nurses always said that normally there are no ketones in ur blood, and they only panicked if the level was 3 or more. The HCAs always checked my ketones when the meter prompted, and always told the Nurse of any ketones no matter what the level.
On one occasion the HCA did my bs- which was about 14, took my ketones - which was 1. She told the nurse the results, after I prompted her to, only she told her my sugar level was 1, not the ketones. All I got was the nurse charging in to check me, looking utterly panicked, then when she saw me wide awake and taking notice she looked both surprised and relieved. I asked what the matter was, she told me the HCA had just told her my sugar was 1! I explained it was ketones @ 1, not sugars! It kept me giggling.
On one occasion the HCA did my bs- which was about 14, took my ketones - which was 1. She told the nurse the results, after I prompted her to, only she told her my sugar level was 1, not the ketones. All I got was the nurse charging in to check me, looking utterly panicked, then when she saw me wide awake and taking notice she looked both surprised and relieved. I asked what the matter was, she told me the HCA had just told her my sugar was 1! I explained it was ketones @ 1, not sugars! It kept me giggling.
