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Ketones

SamJB

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,857
Location
Chester
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hi everyone,
I'm a T1 and have just started low carbing. I'm aiming for less than 75g per day. I just want to know whether eating small quantities of carbs can lead to ketones/ketoacidosis? Thanks.
 
Hi Sam

Eating a very low carb diet (usually less than 50g carb per day) will usually put you into ketosis, a perfectly natural state where your body breaks down fat stores into ketones, which it can use as an alternative source of energy. When you are in ketosis your blood glucose levels do not rise abnormally high (edit for clarity). Ketones may or may not show in your urine. Some people can make a ketone stick go purple; mine usually remain pale mauve! When in ketosis you do not feel unwell, and your BGs stay at your normal controlled levels. Some people feel great and have lots of energy.

Ketoacidosis is a very different condition, when your blood glucose levels go abnormally high - ie, much higher than is normal for you (edit for clarity) - and are accompanied by the presence of ketones in your urine. This, as you obviously know, is dangerous. I believe a person usually feels unwell when DKA happens. If you have high BGs, high ketones and feel bad, get to A&E or call for help.

The above is a very simplistic definition. There are threads about this on this forum; you can also research it elsewhere on the web, including Wikipedia. As a Type 1 you are right to be concerned about this, so in your place I'd have a good look round until you really feel you understand the subject.

I'm sure others who know more than I do will be along soon with more info. However, I do know that low-carb is perfectly safe for Type 1s, and there are Type 1s on here who have used it for a long time. Also have a look at Dr Richard Bernstein's website - just Google his name.

Hope this helps

Viv 8)
 
viviennem said:
"Eating a very low carb diet (usually less than 50g carb per day) will usually put you into ketosis, a perfectly natural state where your body breaks down fat stores into ketones, which it can use as an alternative source of energy. When you are in ketosis your blood glucose levels do not rise."

Hello Sam and Viv- I have ketones in my urine all the time, I was diagnosed type 2 (age 32 BMI 30) in May and started low carb diet straight away. The thing is I started checking for ketones about a week or 2 later, But I don't know if I had them before diet. I tried to up my carb intake but still ketones would show up.

Viv you said that in ketosis BG shouldn't rise? Mine will rise from 6 to 11 in an hour after drinking caffe latte 8g carbs( I ve done this once just to test what will happen) so am I in ketosis or should I worry that I might be LADA.???

What if I I was in ketosis and was to eat really high carb meal, would ketosis stop it to rise any further or would I end up in ketoacidosis? All that is quite confusing,

hopefully someone will know the answer.:)
 
I am no expert but my understanding is that if you have a high BS AND ketones in your urine, you are more likely to be in ketoacidosis. The body only uses stored fat for energy when either there are no carbs to use (ie very low carb diet - ketosis) or you have next to no insulin to allow you to use the available carbohydrate (even though you have a high level of blood sugars- ketoacidosis).

If you are in ketosis and the you eat a high carb diet you will probably find you no longer test positive for ketones in your urine. If you are eating plenty of carbs and still have ketones in your urine, I think it might be time to get medical help..

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong here :-)
 
Daisy222

You will only go into ketosis (ie normal fat-burning) if you do not have enough carbohydrate in your diet for your body to use for energy and it turns to using ketones from broken-down fat stores instead.

If you eat a high-carb meal you will no longer be in ketosis, and it might take 3 days for your body to use up all the carbs in that meal and start ketosis again.

My comment in my previous post . . . your blood sugars do not rise . . . is very misleading, and I am glad you pointed it out. I should have said . . . when in ketosis your blood sugars do not rise abnormally high . . . and I have edited my original post to make more sense. Your blood sugars will rise as usual in response to what you eat or drink - in your case the cafe latte, where the 8g carb comes from milk sugars and any added sugar. Did you know exactly what went into it? I believe the caffeine may also affect your blood glucose response.

If you eat below 50g of carb per day you are likely to remain in ketosis, which will lead to traces of ketones in your urine. However, we are all different - I don't show ketones at 50g of carb; some people may show them at a higher level. How much carb are you eating when you say ". . . ketones still show up"?

The ketosis itself does not act on your blood glucose levels. Carbohydrate in your diet is converted into glucose by the body, and put into the bloodstream for the insulin to put into the muscle cells (for energy), the liver (for emergency stores) and any spare into the fat cells. Ketosis means there is not enough carbohydrate energy for the body to use; it turns first to the liver, and when those stores have run out, starts using the stored fat by breaking it down for energy which produces ketones. If you are not eating many carbs, your blood sugar doesn't rise very high, and your pancreas doesn't have to produce so much insulin to deal with it.

About 25% of the protein you eat is also converted into glucose, but very slowly, so it doesn't spike your glucose levels as quickly (or as high) as a plate of mashed potato would.

Do you test before and 2 hours after your meals? In your place I would do that for a few days, to see what the difference is between the readings just before and 2 hours after. The later reading should be somewhere near the first. If it's significantly higher, keep a food diary as well and double-check the amount of carbs you're eating. It's easy for a few extra to creep in!

If you are still getting ketones at (say) about 70g of carb daily, and you are still getting post-meal swings of up to 11 at the 2 hour point, or if you ever feel unwell (nausea etc) for no know cause, see your GP.

But above all, don't panic! :D Stress can also raise your blood glucose levels. Ketoacidosis is not common in Type 2s. Keep a daily diary of food eaten, carb intake, and BG readings for a week, so you know what's going on and have something to show your GP if necessary.

If you are eating less than 50g carb daily, all the time, you may well be permanently in ketosis.

Please ask again if anything is not clear. Posting an example of your daily food intake might help us to give more advice. :D

Viv 8)

edited for typos.
 
Thanks for all of the comments, my mind has been put at rest!
 
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