Ketones

[robert72]

At what level would your ketones need to be to go into a coma?

Between 10-20 mmol/L for DKA but you need to keep an eye on them before that, especially if you have high BG or are ill

 

[Charlie Tudgay]

Between 10-20 mmol/L for DKA but you need to keep an eye on them before that, especially if you have high BG or are ill

Oh wow okay so me being at 0.8 mmol/L with normal blood glucose levels is nothing to worry about?

 

[robert72]

Oh wow okay so me being at 0.8 mmol/L with normal blood glucose levels is nothing to worry about?

It's fine as long as your BGs are normal and you haven't been avoiding food. I personally wouldn't want to go much over 3. I once got to 5 and felt quite nauseous (too much wine and no food).

 

[jack412]

At what level would your ketones need to be to go into a coma?

 

[robert72]

The problem is if you are not low-carbing, you wouldn't expect to see ketones, so it's wise to test for ketones if you are ill or have high BG, as it could indicate a problem that could escalate to DKA levels quite quickly.

 

[LucySW]

Thanks Jack, I was looking for that diagram.

 

[jack412]

my pleb non medical opinion and you need to ask your medical team...you need to treat ketones early and hard to get back to your normal.. ..it can rise very quickly and you need to get your normal BG and your normal ketones back as soon as possible

you need to ask your dr..with low carb you need to test the blood for a true reading, urine is a rough measure and is the warning..with the diet you are going to settle on a ketone number, for you it may be "1 and under" is your norm.
you need to ask your dr, it could be that anytime your blood is over 11-13 and ketones over your normal "1 and under"..you treat with your sick day rules
http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=141

http://www.diabetes-healthnet.ac.uk...flet_-_Sick_Day_Rules_for_Type_1_-_Nov_13.pdf

https://www.ispad.org/sites/default...pad_guidelines_2009_-_sick_day_management.pdf

Sick day rules flowchart

http://www.leicestershirediabetes.org.uk/uploads//documents/Type1 Sick_day_rules_InsulinV3.pdf

Oh wow okay so me being at 0.8 mmol/L with normal blood glucose levels is nothing to worry about?

 

[alekdomoney]

i have been in to hosptail with dka not nice....just keep a eye on you ketones was a type 2 but a type 1 now

 

[LucySW]

Erghh @robert72 are you there? I've discovered something about my lovely new Ketonix thingey. It gets thrown off when you've had a glass of wine .. Oh dear I'll be giving the wrong impressionsh she shaysh ..

It goes red ( = optimal ketosis state) automatically whenever you've had more than one glass of wine. Oh dear. I suppose I can use it in the morning ..

In the meantime, from a superbly keto-adapted wonderdiabadass, hic - good night!

 

[robert72]

Erghh @robert72 are you there? I've discovered something about my lovely new Ketonix thingey. It gets thrown off when you've had a glass of wine .. Oh dear I'll be giving the wrong impressionsh she shaysh ..

It goes red ( = optimal ketosis state) automatically whenever you've had more than one glass of wine. Oh dear. I suppose I can use it in the morning ..

In the meantime, from a superbly keto-adapted wonderdiabadass, hic - good night!

Are you sure they didn't send you a breathalyser by mistake?

 

[LucySW]

Are you sure they didn't send you a breathalyser by mistake?

It looks just like that actually. And you breathe into it very slowly, so it looks like a cross between that and a karaoke microphone.

 

[LucySW]

Charlie, here is a very thorough answer to your question. http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-ketosis-dangerous.

I love this man: he is so clear, so interested in the logic of the processes.

Happy reading.

 

[diamondnostril]

Erghh @robert72 are you there? I've discovered something about my lovely new Ketonix thingey. It gets thrown off when you've had a glass of wine .. Oh dear I'll be giving the wrong impressionsh she shaysh ..

It goes red ( = optimal ketosis state) automatically whenever you've had more than one glass of wine. Oh dear. I suppose I can use it in the morning ..

In the meantime, from a superbly keto-adapted wonderdiabadass, hic - good night!

I just looked at the little Info leaflet that came with my Ketonix (Sport version) . . .

Says that results can be inaccurate if you test within 1 hour of eating, or within 24 hours of drinking alcohol.

 

[LucySW]

I just looked at the little Info leaflet that came with my Ketonix (Sport version) . . .

Says that results can be inaccurate if you test within 1 hour of eating, or within 24 hours of drinking alcohol.

Well that's definitely true. I've noticed it twice now.

I haven't, though, managed to convert breath acetone/ketones (ppm) to blood ketones (mmol/L).

 

[mehhh2015]

My ketones are now 1.7 and have been in and around this value for the last week since starting lchf two weeks ago.... Not due to starvation/ gastroenteritis or anything like that....bg levels great so does this indicate that I'm now fat adapted and using far for energy in the absence of carbs or is it a bit soon into lchf to see ketosis adaptation occurring?

More than enough time to be into ketosis if your carb intake is low enough. Yes, it could mean you are burning fats instead of glucose if everything else is normal.

 

[nigelho]

Ive never really had high ketone levels even when I was diagnosed. I was diagnosed with my ketone level at 0.6mmol/L and ever since has always read LO or 0.2 mmol/L and never higher. Until today 0.8mmol/L!!! (I know this isn't a dangerous level but it's still in the caution area) It's the highest I've ever been but my bloods have been absolutely fine for over a week.

I have been eating slightly less carbs so don't know if that's why? I'm worried as to why it's so high. Does any one have any ideas?

Thank you

Hi Charlie, For you to have ketones your BSs must be high for a while. I'm type 1 and use the Glucomex LX plus meter which reads ketones but I don't concentrate on ketones...it's your BSs you need to lower and the ketones will go away. What are BSs numbers before and 4 hours after meals and what are your morning readings????With high ketones contact your DSN for the sick day rules. I've done DAFNE ..an excellent course.

 

[LucySW]

BTW, if anyone saw this news item today about a nice low-carb diet particle that switches inflammation off: Beta-hydroxybutyrate is a ketone!

 

[Charlie Tudgay]

Hi Charlie, For you to have ketones your BSs must be high for a while. I'm type 1 and use the Glucomex LX plus meter which reads ketones but I don't concentrate on ketones...it's your BSs you need to lower and the ketones will go away. What are BSs numbers before and 4 hours after meals and what are your morning readings????With high ketones contact your DSN for the sick day rules. I've done DAFNE ..an excellent course.

Thanks nigelho I also use the glucomen LX Plus sensor for both my glucose and ketones. Don't test ketones very often which is why I was shocked when I eventually did take a reading the other day. My morning blood sugar is usually around 5mmol/L but does rise by about 3-4mmol/L a few hours after food but can't take more insulin as would then have a hypo in the following hours. Don't have time to snack as have two very different jobs on the go. So the ketones are not from my blood sugar being high I have insulin in my body all the time.

 

[phoenix]

Just spotted this . As Robert says it's usually linked to sickness or starvation. I remember reading that quite often children in developing countries had DKA on diagnosis at normal levels (they are already starving).It probably happens more to children than adults since their metabolisms aren't as developed.There is even a condition where non diabetic toddlers wake up with mild acidosis and hypoglycaemia.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketotic_hypoglycaemia.
It is more likely in pregnancy but can happen if you are ill. There is a case of someone on here describing it happening to her when she had a stomach 'bug' on holiday in Canada. Not time to try to find it or to write an explanation but:
For those who like to read (and the fuller explanation)
http://www.pjms.com.pk/issues/janmar08/article/bc2.html
and those that like to view (first half)