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Keytones

S

Sue2003

Newbie
Messages
4
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Hi

This is really bad as I have been type 1 for 10 years! But i have never had explained to me keytones :-/.

Can anyone help on this please

Thank you

Sue
 
See link above, explained much better. Thanks noblehead :)
 
You may have heard from your doctor that ketosis is a life-threatening condition. If so, your doctor is confusing diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) with nutritional ketosis, or keto-adaptation. First, some semantics. Our body can produce, from fat and some amino acids, three ketone bodies (a “ketone” refers the chemical structure where oxygen is double-bonded to carbon sandwiched between at least 2 other carbons). These ketone bodies we produce are: acetone, acetoacetone, and beta-hydroxybutyrate (B-OHB).

Why do we make ketones? For starters, it’s a vital evolutionary advantage. Our brain can only function with glucose and ketones. Since we can’t store more than about 24 hours worth of glucose, we would all die of hypoglycemia if ever forced to fast for more than 24 hours. Fortunately, our liver can take fat and select amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) and turn them into ketones, first and foremost to feed our brains. Hence, our body’s ability to produce ketones is required for basic survival.

What is diabetic ketoacidosis? When a diabetic (usually a Type I diabetic, but sometimes this occurs in very late-stage, insulin-dependent, Type II diabetics) fails to receive enough insulin, they go into an effective state of starvation. While they may have all the glucose in the world in their bloodstream, without insulin, they can’t get any into their cells. Hence, they are effectively going into starvation. The body does what it would do in anyone – it starts to make ketones out of fat and proteins. Here’s the problem: the diabetic patient in this case can’t produce any insulin, so there is no feedback loop and they continue to produce more and more ketones without stopping. By the time ketone levels (specifically, beta-hydroxybutyrate) approach 15 to 25 mM, the resulting pH imbalance leads to profound metabolic derangement and the patient is critically ill.

But this state of metabolic derangement is not actually possible in a person who can produce insulin, even in small amounts. The reason is that a feedback loop prevents the ketone level from getting high enough to cause the change in pH that leads to the cascade of bad problems. A person who is said to be “keto-adapted,” or in a state of nutritional ketosis, generally has beta-hydroxybutyrate levels between about 0.5 and 3.0 mM. This is far less than the levels required to cause harm through acid-base abnormalities.

Keto-adaption is a state, achieved through significant reduction of carbohydrate intake (typically to less than 50 grams per day), where the body changes from relying on glycogen as its main source of energy to relying on fat. Specifically, the brain shifts from being primarily dependent on glucose, to being primarily dependent on beta-hydroxybutyrate. This has nothing to do with what a diabetic patient is experiencing in DKA, but does illustrate how poorly informed and quick to react the medical community is. DKA and nutritional ketosis (or keto-adaptation) have as much in common as a house fire and a fireplace.

FB
 
very good and interesting explanation fatbird :)
One thing I'm not sure about though is when in ketosis (not dka) as well as fat being broken down as a fuel source, does it also break down muscle at the same time?
Or what would be used if in ketosis when not enough fat left to break down, such as in an underweight person.
Sounds like you may know lol.
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Thanks for.the link but couldn't find the answer to my questions, thanks anyway. Did however see a red warning stating not suitable for type 1 diabetics. And the op being a type 1, think its an important point to make.

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agreed, great explanation, i have one question if i may.... when diagnosed and certainly not in ketosis from low carbing, they found keytones in me, im type 2, did you not say that wasnt possible? they said i wasnt in ketoacidosis so it was fine
 
Sorry andy are you asking me? Anyone can have ketones. Personally I don't think its good for anybody, just.my.opinion though. certainly at levels over 0.6. Can remember at diagnosis them saying I had ketones and my blood was extremely acidic. Trouble was I want even producing a tiny amount of insulin to help my body, so even more ketones were made. That with dangerous high sugar levels caused an imbalance in me do my body was attacking everything, fat,muscle organs. would think an undiagnosed type 2 would have them from not being able to utilise the insulin they are producing due to insulin resistance or not producing enough through exhaustion of insulin producing cells, making the body produce ketones to use other fuel. That said am sure it would still be very dangerous.

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I've been at +++ and ++++ for ages now on the ketostix(In combination with good BG's) and I feel great! :thumbup:
 
After reading this thread, I thought I'd check out Ketosis on Wikipedia, and apparently it's a suggested cause of spontaneous human combustion :shock: Don't you just love 'experts'! Not very helpful I know, but made me laugh.
 
Rockape671 said:
After reading this thread, I thought I'd check out Ketosis on Wikipedia, and apparently it's a suggested cause of spontaneous human combustion :shock: Don't you just love 'experts'! Not very helpful I know, but made me laugh.
Click to expand...

LOL!! That would explain why I'm so 'Hot'!! :mrgreen:
 
Well after eating lots of carbs including lots of veg,fruit,wholmeal breads and pasta, proteins, low fat and having regular exercise (in combination with good bgs) and lots of insulin, I feel awesome :)

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