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Lack of muscle strength - what could I be doing wrong?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by tom_r_orr, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    10 years type 2, over one year on LCHF, no more metformin and statins. Low dose blood pressure meds and an aspirin a day.

    So after a year on LCHF I have made good progress. 20 Kg gone, down to 75Kg, ideal weight 70 Kg, walk 5 Km each day and so feel generally much healthier.

    I have 2 problems (ignoring the neuropathy in my feet which refuses to go away)

    1) My weight loss has stalled for several months. No matter what I try - eat less, eat more carbs (fruit), tried intermittent fasting etc the last 5 Kg just wont budge

    2) I don't have the energy and strength I used to have and that others mention frequently. I am asleep very early in the evenings after trying hard not to doze off early evening, I can sleep 10 hours easy with 1 or 2 toilet excursions. Finally my strength I've noticed is now very poor, especially noticeable in my legs. Getting up from a squat position is very difficult.

    What can I do to get back on track?

    I've considered supplements but have never had any luck with them before, and I don't know what, if anything, I could be deficient in.

    Help!
     
  2. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    May I ask how long ago you stopped taking the statin?

    Also, are you getting enough protein? As we age our ability to metabolise protein diminishes so we may need a little more to offset this.
     
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  3. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I stopped the statins in June 2018 and the metformin in July 2018. I tracked my BG every day as i reduced the dose and there wasn't and still isn't anything to indicate a rise. I am due a set of blood tests soon but am no longer concerned with 'high' cholesterol as I am convinced that was just a big pharma scam now.

    My diet consists of mainly eggs, fish, chicken and pork cooked with veg such as onion and tomato. Only veg I eat are broccoli, cauliflower, mushrooms and salad greens. Some days its meat only with eggs/bacon etc for breakfast.
     
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  4. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    The reason I mentioned statins was because they are known to cause side effects of muscle pain and/or muscle weakness. There are reports of people stopping the statin but the side effects taking some considerable time to disappear (and I have heard reports of irreversible symptoms).

    It seems you have no lack of protein in your diet. Sorry, I'm out of ideas but I'm sure other members will be along soon to offer up advice. I am left with the suggestion to bring this problem up with your GP. Good Luck.
     
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  5. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    It took me six years to regain muscle strength after 26 days in statins. Even though I supplemented with Q10 (which resolved the muscle pain) I didn't really improve muscle strength until I added l-carnatine as a supplement after reading the following article from Dr Sinatra.
    https://spacedoc.com/articles/dr-sinatra-coq10-and-carnitine. My muscle strength is still improving.

    This is a small extract from the article:
    'Recently, both Dr. Graveline and I have reported on a newly discovered source of carnitine problems: statin drugs. For years I had seen many new patients who complained of crushing muscle pain, the obvious result of taking statin drugs.

    Some of them continued to have muscle pain even when I took them off the medication and prescribed CoQ10. The CoQ10 usually eliminated the problem. In these stubborn cases, improvement didn't occur until I added L-carnitine to the program. The carnitine enabled the muscles to rebound.'
     
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  6. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks i will check that out. However, I was on statins for a long time, around 10 years, with no side effects so I guess you are thinking the side effects are coming after I stopped the statins? I will look into the suggestion you made thank you.
     
  7. mariavontrapp

    mariavontrapp Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I've never taken statins, but I do have weakness in my legs when I low carb. I eat enough protein and take supplements but nothing seems to help. If everything is stable regarding blood glucose and weight, you might be able to introduce a little carb into your diet but you would have to be very careful with it. I think a number of people do experience muscle weakness on low carb, but the LCHF experts that I have watched tend to skip over it and concentrate on the success stories and sporty types.
    I would recommend that you get checked for high ferritin (iron) levels. Symptoms of haemochromatosis include fatigue, pain, high cholesterol, diabetes. Why not Google it just in case the profile fits.
     
  8. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks I will research this further. Time to arrange for some new blood tests. I have started to introduce a little fresh fruit (mango, pineapple and mangosteen, mandarins) as they grow in my garden.
     
  9. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I would have a read up about getting enough salt, magnesium and potassium while low carbing. Particularly the last two, since symptoms of deficiency can include muscle weakness, trembling and spasms.

    Also, are you actually eating enough?
    Or have you cut your food down in a push for losing that last 5 kg?
    Some people find that consistently cutting calories will actually stall weight loss, because the metabolism drops to preserve energy needs.

    OF course, both of those are pure speculation. I hope you find the answer.

    As for your neuropathy, have a look around the forum for threads on it. You will find a number of people find R-ALA helps with improving the symptoms, and many find that keeping their blood glucose as low and as steady as possible also helps - but I am afraid that adding in fruit is likely to cause rapid sharp spikes in blood glucose that may happen before you test at 1 or 2 hours (for me, the spike is usually at 45 mins with sweet fruit), so you may have more blood glucose fluctuations than you realise.
     
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  10. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your input

    I am pretty sure I eat enough. Typical day would be 3 eggs scrambled in butter and cream cheese, boiled egg or tuna salad or home made keto soup (mushroom, broccoli or similar), and before 5 pm either roasted chicken breast. Most days are just a variation of this. I make many Indian dishes with pork and chicken as its' the food I miss most living here.

    I have been taking 600 mg ALA (R-ALA not available to me here) - I have to mail order as I live in rural Thailand. Been on it 5 months and have 5 month more supply. Not sure if I am wasting my time but all accounts say it takes a very long time for neuropathy to subside. I'll keep going for now.

    I chose fruit as it's free and plentiful. At the start of my LCHF I tested all the main fruits, the scariest being banana which raised my BG after 90 minutes from my regular 100-110 to 284! I no longer eat bananas, but mango and pineapple (I don't eat a whole one) are not too bad, and I don't have fruit every day.

    Would a small portion of white rice be better than fruit? What carbs would be more appropriate to add to my daily intake? White rice? Probably not.
     
  11. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don’t necessarily think it’s carbs you need as much as energy. Have you ever checked just what your macros are? I’m not sure there’s enough fat there, and I guess the food you list depends on quantities for whether it’s enough or not. Some days I eat that little but others much more. Also brunnerias recommendations for electrolytes are spot on.

    Mango pineapple and rice are all definite no go for me.
     
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  12. Ponchu

    Ponchu · Well-Known Member

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    Hey, you’ll find an answer! Hang in there.

    If you don’t mind a suggestion:

    Do some research on the aspirin a day.

    I was also on it to thin blood & prevent heart attack.
     
  13. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    If you are living in the heat of Thailand, I would follow up the salt, magnesium and potassium possibility. Plus of course dehydration. I am sure that if you live there, you are far more aware than me of the effect heat can have, but I need to supplement more potassium in even the feeble heat of a UK summer! ;)
     
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  14. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Personally, I wouldn't add carbs in. I would look at increasing the protein and or fat a bit. Some folks find that when weight loss has stalled, they just need to do something different for a while.

    I get what you say about local fruit, with virtually zero travel miles. It's a bit bonkers - sometimes, but bananas are usually a real challenge for T2s.

    I'm in Thailand at the moment, at its quite toasty, with a couple of days at 38c this last week. On that basis, I am having to be careful to ensure I hydrate well, but every now and then, I drop a clanger. Dehydration makes me feel like I've had a drink, when that's rarely the case.
     
  15. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with @Brunneria, if at all possible medically proven via tests, I won't go right into my story but I used to "hit the wall" when walking intensely as a symptom. You may also still have insulin resistance, so watch the fructose in the fruit you are eating, again if you can get your liver status (ALT is a good one) and possibly your HOMA-IR, something may stick out like a sore thumb.

    As you can probably tell, I lean towards the mechanistic methodologies, so along with tests, I would also do active strength training, body weight and or weights.
     
  16. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    @tom_r_orr just wondering if you are eating enough fat (as mentioned by @HSSS ). Initially when we go keto the body has ample easy to get at fat stores to burn for energy. When the fat stores are dwindling it is not as easy for the body to convert its fat stores fast enough to supply all the energy it needs. So you would need to add fat to your diet to protect your muscles.
     
  17. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks

    Yes I have been taking an electrolyte drink every second day since i moved to the tropics 7 years ago, as well as being very aware of possible dehydration so am drinking lots of water every day. I survive with fluids only with water and tea. I hate coffee :) I need to check what multivitamins are best for me. Fortunately the Thai love supplements so there should be a big choice.
     
  18. tom_r_orr

    tom_r_orr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This could be it but it's hard to know. I cook everything in butter, ghee or olive oil. I add butter to as much as possible. I buy fatty cuts of pork and keep the skin on chicken. Not sure how to increase fat though?Suggestions welcomed.
     
  19. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Fruit isn’t going to do much good. Irrespective of the measurable glucose load, the fructose content, which won’t directly raise blood glucose, will contribute directly to fatty liver and increased insulin resistance. Fruit is designed in nature to help us gain weight in the summer, so using it to lose weight is not a good idea.
     
  20. Krystyna23040

    Krystyna23040 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I think your sample menu in post 10 - although it did have butter, cream cheese and skin on chicken - maybe could have been higher in fat. It's hard to tell as I don't know the weight of what you ate.

    I do have cream in coffee which does add a lot of fat. There are also nuts and seeds that are high fat. Ideally you add a bit more fat to give energy but not enough to stall weight loss. It's trial and error - unfortunately.
     
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