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Last nights TV program

Hecky!! there's some bickering going on here... No need for it, type1 and type2 we are all in the same boat with the high BS out of all control . . . untill corrected via diet meds insulin peptides n excersise plus loads of love n acceptance from ourselves family n public n HCP. We all have our up's n downs in the diabetes journey but plod on we must! Best to remain positive n supportive of each other both n all types... Some persons DO develop diabetes genetically and tiny skinny folk too, I should know being one of 'them' ! ! ! I would never dream or ever dare to "label" any person with diabetes any type either, whatever the type they get my acceptance! Anna.
 
was moaning about his diabetes and saying that it has attacked all of his body and as a result he's lost the sight in one eye, lost one of his toes etc..
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Well if you lost an eye and a toe expect you would have a moan err ??

The program was about Oversize people
And the Ambulance crew Dealing with the problems of transport and manhandling the Over sized
Not Diabetes It only touched on Diabetes VIA patients comments

Should i start moaning because all had working legs and used wheelchairs ?

but the BBC should at least get it right.
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Why!!! it was the patients comments not the presenters ??
that he had lost most of hes sight and some toes ...was he telling a lie ?

[youtube]BRfzeRfM5Ps[/youtube]

Full program
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011k479/Super_Size_Ambulance/
 
What an ill tempered and not very well-informed rant, Patch old boy. Engineering and medicine are not in any way alike; much medical treatment is speculative, and always will be, simply because the human being is so complex that a single cause or a single cure for any condition, including T2 diabetes, often cannot be identified. That in no way invalidates the efficacy of the treatment. There are tens of millions of pounds spent annually in this country alone on researching the causes of diabetes, and to call those who carry out this research 'cowboys' is rather to spit on those who may save your life.

In any case as any moderately well informed T2 sufferer will tell you (and you should know), T2 diabetes is not one condition but a complicated matrix of related conditions, all of which require treatment together if the condition is not to overwhelm the sufferer.
 
It's starting to get a little bit personal. Keep discussing the issue but not discussing the people who are discussing it -if you see what I mean.
 
Engineering and medicine are NOT alike. Unfortunately.

If there is not a single cure, why does the medical community insist on treating high BG as if it were the only problem? B}I'll tell you why - because it's EASY to treat high BG ("here, have some insulin - don't worry about the weight gain, we'll deal with that bridge when we get to it").

Give an engineer the information on the problem, and he provides solutions. Give him a "complicated matrix" of related problems, and he'll give you a solution to each of the interrelated problems. And if he can't, he'll go away and research some more. If one of those solutions has an impact on an associated problem he'll modify the solutions.

Give the same task to someone in the medical field, and they'll tell you what the problem is, and why it is difficult (expensive, with little profit associated!) to resolve it. They see the "complicated matrix" as a barrier.

What good is that?

I don't have the same level of respect (following my own experience) for the "experts" as you seem to have. Like I said, that's just from my own experience. (I'm an engineer, if you hadn't guessed! :wink: )

Welcome to the forum. You're gonna fit in really well with a certain bunch of "us"! :wink:

(P.S - question EVERYTHING! :wink: )
(P.P.S - hi benedict.)
 
Well, you're an engineer - personal comment removed. As you will see from the people on this forum, we are all different, so using the example of an engineer's cure for an engineering problem (or set of problems) which will always be the same is no help when dealing with the search for a cure for a set of medical problems which present differently and may have different causes in every case.

And I am not interested in your forum politics - I will not 'fit in' at all. personal comment removed
 
Hi Patch

Well I'm an engineer and I largely agree with your points. I've been angry since my diagnosis as Type 2 that the GPs I have dealt with seem to represent an approach to scientific problem investigation and problem solving within medicine that I have not generally experienced within my areas of science and engineering. Yes, much of the lack of investigation, diagnostics and even time spent listening to the patient is cost-driven and understandable but there is still a generally agreed approach to problem solving across the sciences; this includes problem separation, measurement, investigation etc etc. The typical GPs lack of support for BS meters for type 2 is just one example of the non-scientific and unacceptable approach I and others have experienced. The result is bad information collection for ongoing research and somewhat arbitrary treatment (e.g. guesswork) for the patient. Examples of this lack of discipline are numerous and the current one that bugs me is the use of the term 'starchy' carbs by the NHS, dieticians and DUK. I think the intention is to refer to complex, high fibre lowish-GI carbs (good) but then items such as bread, pasta etc are listed as 'starchy' which can be made from high-GI simple carbs (bad) such as highly refined white flour. The definition is vague. Within my engineering discipline I'm used to accurate product/component specifications not vague adjectives. I look forward to a time when the NHS, NICE, DUK etc can improve the approach that enables the diabetes researcher who hopefully uses a formal scientific method in his research to have much better data to deal with.
 
Patch said:
I can't believe that there are 2 ways of developing T2.
These are polar opposites - how can T2 be caused by BOTH of these things???
We need to DEMAND that the medical community put a concerted effort into understanding the CAUSE of T2 diabetes
Becasue they DON'T KNOW what causes T2 Diabetes. I bet they're so far of the mark that what they label as T2 Diabetes isn't really even a form of diabetes!
A scientist/engineer would NEVER offer a solution without a sound understanding of the cause of the problem.
[/quote

I guess all the above points have gone through my head before but when you put them together as Patch has done it is very thought provoking. Well done Patch.
The one commonality that there is throughout all the "diabetes" types is, that carbohydrates have a deletorious effect.
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bowell said:
Back on topic did anyone see : Casualty with The Diabetic leg rotting ?]
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Yes I did watch it, Casualty has had some really strong storylines of late and keeps getting better.

Nigel
 
I watched it and can relate to the poor management wanting to scapegoat someone else when they were to blame.

The possible amputation faced by the man with diabetes was worrying.
 
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