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Lchf or not during pregnancy

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RoseofSharon

RoseofSharon

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,506
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Ok basically I'm trying to get my head around what to eat while pregnant. I haven't yet been brave enough to make a nurse/dr appointment although I know I will need to do so this week. However right now I'm trying to get my head around what is best to eat. I'm hoping I'm not going to get too much nausea, but I could be wrong on that note . Anyway o was wondering as normally I ever towards (often unsuccessfully) lchf normally whether or not I need to change this while pregnant or whether I can continue eating in my normal way...
 
Can't really comment on the lchf during pregnancy (although i firmly believe that well formulated lchf offers better nutrition than a plate that wastes half its space on nutrition-poor carbs).

But i thought i would draw your attention to something i read a while back linking increased autoimmune diseases and the development of Diabetes, and low vit D levels while in the womb.
http://www.diabetesandenvironment.org/home/other/vitamin-d
Now, i am not suggesting you start ODing on vit D supplements! But you may consider making the most of the sun this summer, and build up some nice Vit D stores to last you and Baby through the winter.
 
This is my opinion only and not saying that it's the way to go but I agree with @Brunneria that a good structured low carb healthy fats diet would be far better to control your bs which is important during pregnancy and give you the nutrition your body needs - lots of pregnant women eat a far poorer diet and have healthy babies. Of course there is the usual caveats of no soft cheeses, pates etc.

And of course like you say it all depends on your morning sickness, cravings etc that are an extra hurdle when pregnant.
All you can do is your best and not let overthinking spoil the enjoyment of the making of your new little person!
 
RoseofSharon said:
Ok basically I'm trying to get my head around what to eat while pregnant. I haven't yet been brave enough to make a nurse/dr appointment although I know I will need to do so this week. However right now I'm trying to get my head around what is best to eat. I'm hoping I'm not going to get too much nausea, but I could be wrong on that note . Anyway o was wondering as normally I ever towards (often unsuccessfully) lchf normally whether or not I need to change this while pregnant or whether I can continue eating in my normal way...
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I would definitely not do LCHF during pregnancy (or breastfeeding). Obviously no one is going to do a study on pregnant women, but an animal study showed possible cognitive problems in foetuses of mice on LCHF.

Why risk it? There's no need to eat vast amounts of carbs, but a moderate amount is sensible in my opinion. The study mentioned above suggested a minimum of 100g. I ate around 180 to 200g.

I am not a medical expert but I did do a HUGE amount of research for my last pregnancy as it was extra high risk. My opinion is not to risk LCHF. Its simply not worth it. My opinion only : )
 
I think the amount of other restrictions you have while pregnant are enough to think about without worrying too much about LCHF. So while I have not had a huge amount of carbs, there have been days when due to nausea I only wanted very bland things like brown toast, and obviously several of my usual LCHF options like cured meats and cheeses were off the menu. I've just tried to eat healthily as possible from all the food groups without too many spikes.
 
Not an expert, but it is worth remembering that the OP is a T2, not a T1, and, what is more, a T2 with recent successful experience at low carbing, This puts a very different perspective on things.

I am also interested to ask; from what I have read on the boards, women who develop gestational diabetes end up using insulin. Does the same progression happen for T2s during their pregnancy? If that were the case, I would imagine that Bernstein's law of small numbers is worth considering.
 
Brunneria said:
Not an expert, but it is worth remembering that the OP is a T2, not a T1, and, what is more, a T2 with recent successful experience at low carbing, This puts a very different perspective on things.

I am also interested to ask; from what I have read on the boards, women who develop gestational diabetes end up using insulin. Does the same progression happen for T2s during their pregnancy? If that were the case, I would imagine that Bernstein's law of small numbers is worth considering.
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Yes, I know @RoseofSharon is a Type 2 :)

I disagree that it puts a different perspective on things. The study I mentioned did not differentiate between 'types', it looked at whether LCHF (that is, minimal amounts of carbs) could affect the foetus and their future development. It is the effect on the foetus not the mother that is the point. I have no doubt @RoseofSharon is a knowledgable and careful low carber but it is not appropriate to recommend a diet very low in carbs if there's even the tiniest risk it could affect the developing child.

I am not suggesting anyone needs to gorge themselves on carbs, and certainly a healthy diet as free from 'empty calories' as possible is important for a healthy pregnancy, but carb restriction to a low level has the potential to cause harm.

The HF part of LCHF isn't an issue. Indeed, many women increase their intake of fats before conception (supposed to help fertility) and during pregnancy. Butter, whole milk, oily fish, avocado, etc - no problem. But a very low level of carbs - even if your body is used to it - is not worth the risk, in my opinion.

LCHF is absolutely fine for those who choose it - it's not a question of that. But during pregnancy and breastfeeding it's a different matter.

Sorry - just saw your question about GD, etc. Yes, many Type 2s do need insulin during pregnancy. Yes, the goal is to keep tight control (for all types). But it is not necessary to reduce carbs to a very low level to do that. The balance is between eating a sufficent amount of carbs for the developing foetus, while maintaining control. Things are different in pregnancy, and the 'tools' to keep good control must bear the developing baby in mind.
 
Hi - I stuck to a healthy balanced diet when pregnant and just avoided things that I knew spiked my blood sugars like ice cream! I normally had porridge with berries for breakfast - a sandwich or salad for lunch and meat or fish with mash or rice and veg for dinner. Snacks I had nuts fruit or yoghurt - none of this seemed to spike my sugars but everyone is different! I personally couldn't have done low carb as I was always hungry lol! But I probably had a healthier diet when pregnant than I ever have had in my life! When I gave birth I was half a stone lighter than when I fell pregnant! Good luck with your pregnancy! xxx


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azure said:
Yes, I know @RoseofSharon is a Type 2 :)

I disagree that it puts a different perspective on things. The study I mentioned did not differentiate between 'types', it looked at whether LCHF (that is, minimal amounts of carbs) could affect the foetus and their future development. It is the effect on the foetus not the mother that is the point. I have no doubt @RoseofSharon is a knowledgable and careful low carber but it is not appropriate to recommend a diet very low in carbs if there's even the tiniest risk it could affect the developing child.

I am not suggesting anyone needs to gorge themselves on carbs, and certainly a healthy diet as free from 'empty calories' as possible is important for a healthy pregnancy, but carb restriction to a low level has the potential to cause harm.

The HF part of LCHF isn't an issue. Indeed, many women increase their intake of fats before conception (supposed to help fertility) and during pregnancy. Butter, whole milk, oily fish, avocado, etc - no problem. But a very low level of carbs - even if your body is used to it - is not worth the risk, in my opinion.

LCHF is absolutely fine for those who choose it - it's not a question of that. But during pregnancy and breastfeeding it's a different matter.
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We will have to disagree then.

I would need a great deal more evidence than one study to convince me. I would also be interested in information on the effect of T2 insulin resistance/raised insulin on the unborn, over decades. Kraft has done some fantastic work on the long term effects of insulin resistance over decades, but I don't think it covered pregnancy and effect on the foetus.

My experience of eating moderate carb is that it makes me feel ill, while low carbing (please note no one has suggested VERY low carbing) makes me feel well. The thought of enduring a pregnancy already feeling grotty through carbs, with all the additional hormonal and emotional stuff that goes on simply because of the pregnancy, seems like a very bad idea to me. And I am sure it would have a knock on effect on the baby.

However, I am speaking from personal experience, and RoseofSharon's experience of carb v low carb, may be completely different.

This is why forums are so great - everyone puts their perspective into the mix, and everyone else takes out of the mix what they feels applies to them.
 
That was the study that convinced me most. I read a huge amount about the best diet for pregnancy - and I do mean a huge amount! That study particularly stuck in my mind because I have an interest (through my career) in cognitive development. I'd also read a lot about the beneficial affects of Omega 3 on the baby's brain development. There were other studies and medical opinions that also advised against VLC during pregnancy.

Again - the choice isn't VLC or shedloads of carbs. The OP probably won't eat as many carbs as some other ladies during pregnancy, but the is evidence to suggest a carb intake below 100g is potentially risky.

Your choice of what you did/do in pregnancy is, of course, your own :)
 
Well that sorts it then.

Low Carb is considered to be up to 130g carbs, or even sometimes up to 150g carbs. So even your evidence points to low carbing being a suitable diet for pregnancy.
 
Brunneria said:
Well that sorts it then.

Low Carb is considered to be up to 130g carbs, or even sometimes up to 150g carbs. So even your evidence points to low carbing being a suitable diet for pregnancy.
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Good that we agree :)

As LCHF is often taken to mean a daily carb intake of 50g or less, then I think it's right to specify that a higher intake than that during pregnancy is probably wise. Thank you for your confirmation about the carb level you meant :)
 
Thanks guys, I didn't mean to put the cat amongst the pigeons lol. However on a serious note I am glad not to have to change my diet. I spent nearly ten years doing 30g or less of carbs with no problem and then another year and half on paleo (all before my t2 diagnosis) so in that respect I know that I can healthily tolerate it for myself. I already know that I will not be able to go that low on carbs on a personal level as a couple of night now regardless of how high my sugars were earlier in the day around late evening or heading towards midnight not only have I become very hungry but I have felt unwell with my sugars dropping below five (yes I know that is not a hypo, but I think they have dropped very quickly rendering the unwell symptoms), however for me it is the grains that cause the most of my issues normally although I do watch the carb content of everything lol. However all that considered it is nice to hear that LCHF can be tolerated while pregnant.

@azure may I have a link to that study you refer to please? I would like to read it for myself. Yes I am going to look into the research, but right now I am just overwhelmed with the thought of everything I have to get sorted out.

In terms of cravings and nausea. So far weirdly it is only things such as doughnuts and other things that are unhealthy for me that has really caused me to feel sick (weirdly just looking at them in the supermarket made me nearly throw up) so in that respect its almost helping me to keep to a healthier diet. Oh and I was only looking at such things as I was buying for a picnic that we were planning to go on with some friends .
 
@RoseofSharon I'like look for it later : ) As I said, it was one of many things I read as basically I sat in bed every night with my iPad reading pregnancy things! If I could somehow search and copy everything I read in my iPad and send it to you, I would. I do have a normal computer but rarely use it now. You can also, of course, Google for yourself.

You might also wish to speak to your dietician. At my first or second antenatal appointment, I saw one at the hospital, and she was very helpful regarding going over foods to avoid in pregnancy, things to help nausea, optimum amounts of carbs to have, vitamins, etc.
 
I googled for the study and found this. It's very detailed but I've posted the Results and Conclusion below for you and anyone else interested :) This isn't the webpage I was remembering when I was talking to Brunneria above. That page took the study and extrapolated it to humans as it made recommendations of minimum carb levels. When I read about the study, I googled it and then checked other pages on obstetrics, nutrition, diabetes, etc, etc, etc! I had in mind eating the best diet for my baby in utero and to give them the best chance of good health in life, bearing in mind my own diabetes and recent advances in nutritional knowledge eg that fat isn't the evil it was made out to be, etc. All pregnant ladies have to,weigh the evidence for themselves, and act as they see best for their baby :) With the help of consultants, midwives and dieticians, of course.

Here's the link to the study:

http://bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2393-13-109

An anatomical comparison of the SD and KD embryos revealed that at E13.5 the average KD embryo was volumetrically larger, possessed a relatively larger heart but smaller brain, and had a smaller pharynx, cervical spinal cord, hypothalamus, midbrain, and pons, compared with the average SD embryo. At E17.5 the KD embryo was found to be volumetrically smaller with a relatively smaller heart and thymus, but with enlarged cervical spine, thalamus, midbrain and pons.

Conclusion
A ketogenic diet during gestation results in alterations in embryonic organ growth. Such alterations may be associated with organ dysfunction and potentially behavioral changes in postnatal life.
 
@azure or @ArtemisBow , could I ask what the feotus actually gets from their mother's ingested carbohydrate?

I am childless and now beyond any possibility of entering that arena, so I've never actually thought this through, but I do love to learn.
 
AndBreathe said:
@azure or @ArtemisBow , could I ask what the feotus actually gets from their mother's ingested carbohydrate?

I am childless and now beyond any possibility of entering that arena, so I've never actually thought this through, but I do love to learn.
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As with all of us humans the carbohydrates the mother eats breaks down into simple sugars and these sugars are transported to the cells (with the aid of insulin) which then use it for energy. What is unused goes across to the baby and that excess sugars enter the babies cells (with the aid of insulin). If the mother has too high an amount of excess sugar in her blood stream this can pass across the placenta and the baby can become very big in the womb. Several negative complications are associated with the mother having to higher blood glucose.
 
RoseofSharon said:
As with all of us humans the carbohydrates the mother eats breaks down into simple sugars and these sugars are transported to the cells (with the aid of insulin) which then use it for energy. What is unused goes across to the baby and that excess sugars enter the babies cells (with the aid of insulin). If the mother has too high an amount of excess sugar in her blood stream this can pass across the placenta and the baby can become very big in the womb. Several negative complications are associated with the mother having to higher blood glucose.
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I understand the impacts of hyperglycaemia in pregnancy, and I am assuming that, amongst other things, is why T1s attend pre-conception clinics, with a view to usually reducing the HbA1c. My thinking was that if high bloods are a disadvantage, at best for a pregnant woman, and her baby then the desire would be to keep control tight.

Actually, thinking about it, I can't really state T2s don't have access too pre-conception care, as I haven't read too much in that area myself. What was your last HbA1c and how are you currently controlling things?

As I say, I have no direct experience or extensive reading on this so I know I would not want to be making suggestions to you, although I do have a view on how I might proceed.
 
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