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Lchf

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Julie27318, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. Julie27318

    Julie27318 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  2. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Look at the source of this material. Best listen to someone like Aseem Malhotra who is a British cardiologist and unbiased to boot.

     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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  4. Julie27318

    Julie27318 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm shocked that they're saying Lchf is bad 4 your health
     
  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    It doesn't fit in with their world view so they are highly unlikely to say "hey this is great for you" now are they...
     
  6. Julie27318

    Julie27318 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Why though....i mean why does it not fit in with their world view?
     
  7. britishpub

    britishpub Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As always I am surprised that so many people get taken in by this particular poster. :banghead:
     
  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Because most people on a ketogenic diet will be meat eater...s a plant based diet is by its very definition anti-meat for the most part.
     
  9. sally and james

    sally and james Family member · Well-Known Member

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    Vegans are generally rather keen that meat and animal products shouldn't be eaten, indeed some of them are quite militant about it. Low carbers tend to begin their advice by saying you can eat meat, fish, poultry, cheese, eggs, cream, butter etc, which are all animal products, so vegans don't tend to like us very much.

    You can, of course, eat a vegan low carb diet, but the necessary fats and proteins have a narrow range of possible sources.
    Sally
     
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  10. sally and james

    sally and james Family member · Well-Known Member

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    Often important to take posts at face value, even if one does have suspicions. There may be somebody out there who doesn't quite get it.
    Sally
     
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  11. simonr1

    simonr1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  12. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    The doctor is listed as being the first vegan president of the American association of cariologists. He may be a vegan because he has learnt of the immense dangers of eating animal products but it is more likely a moral stance which is then shaping his biases. It is a shame because plant based diets also focus on high quality non processed foods, not too much protein and no sugars which is why those diets are great compared to the standard Western one. IMO they are not great because they avoid animal products and that omission means they have to replace B vitamins, iron, D and A.
     
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  13. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    The diet that is WFPB is a high carb low fat diet and is based on whole grains. Our forum here is full of evidence both anecdotal and scientific that supports the view that an HCLF diet is not suitable for diabetics in general, I suggest you ask the WFPB website for evidence that supports their stance. So far most of their 'science' is based on the Adventist 2 study which has been shown to be a highly suspect and biassed study that was run by the 7th Day Adventists to 'prove' that their way of life is the most healthy. This may explain where the WFPB proponents gets their zeal from.

    Followers of WFPB will make claims that their diet is a cure for T2D, but having tried it myself I can say that I found it took my bgl levels way too high and was actually dangerous for me. Others here have also experienced adverse effects from their diet, and so far to date there seems to be no one who has reported success using their diet plan. Check out the Success testimonials thread, because if it really worked for diabetics, then there should be at least 1 entry, but last time I scanned it there was zero. ZILCH!

    There was a recent discussion in the forum of a comparison between diets being conducted by Harvard that also turned out to be heavily biassed in favour of this HF diet. but in fact the data they used supported the Low Carb diet, but the conclusion they incorrectly drew was the opposite. It was quite blatent, but got news coverage recently using just the summary section without any attempts to check if the study was reliable. EDIT to add: this is the report that was just linkd into this thread a few posts ago

    This is not saying that a vegan diet is wrong or dangerous, it is merely this particular variant that we have problems with, along with their insistance that it will cure diabetes ( along with cancer, Parkinsons, dementia and 309 associated ills to quote their sales spiel and books). There are people who successfully follow a vegan diet and there is advice in the forum and its own thread. But WFPB is a different beastie.
     
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    #13 Oldvatr, Aug 25, 2018 at 6:41 PM
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  14. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Perhaps if you read past the headline you might start to understand why you can't take things at face value.
     
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  15. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Cut a long story short.

    Has any posters who do low carb diet died since starting theirs?
    Not me.
    You? (he he)
     
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  16. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I would suggest that anyone in that unfotunate position is gonna be too busy to respond here
     
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  17. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well, not wanting to die too early is at the heart, if I can say such, of many of our diabetes journeys in here, including our in depth discussions about the better or best diets for us to live on in the attempt to live on. I know @Oldvatr and I have discussed such for sure. So it is certainly understandable why that headline makes such an impact on us. I know my partner made a point of sending me the article, basically in terms of, "know thy enemy", which is important for us to know, when our lives literally depend on it.

    Of course we are all going to die, we just don't want to die too early.

    It is of course hilarious, and ridiculous, the idea that going low/er carb and eating healthy fats will shorten lifespans. For how long in our species' history have we been eating the opposite? Only 50 or so years. It's good that we call studies and commentators and articles out on this. And it is really healthy for us to have a good laugh over it.
     
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  18. britishpub

    britishpub Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Not this particular poster

    It should be obvious to everyone that it only posts to disrupt.
     
  19. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I disagree with this. OP has other forum posts that are not contentions, and seems to be an omnivore, so is not promoting WFPB as some have done in the past. There is nothing in the followin posts that the OP has made that would support your POV in this.
     
  20. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The conclusion from the actual referenced study...
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3555979/
    "Conclusion
    Low-carbohydrate diets were associated with a significantly higher risk of all-cause mortality and they were not significantly associated with a risk of CVD mortality and incidence. However, this analysis is based on limited observational studies and large-scale trials on the complex interactions between low-carbohydrate diets and long-term outcomes are needed."

    My cursory layman understanding is that those on Keto/low-carb diet are likely to die from something else...NOT CVD...

    Then again...these are the limitations of such studies...
    "The adjustment factors and the risk of bias among the studies are summarized in Table 2 and Table S1, respectively. Major confounding factors such as total energy intake were not stated in two studies. [23], [32] Few inspected any updates of the carbohydrate intake over the follow-up period. Protein source was added to analysis in 3 studies. [7], [9], [30] The risk of bias among the researches involved in the meta-analysis was low."

    So we are free to interpret it in any way and wonder if it is really low carb... Frankly no one has any concrete data for long term effects of keto/low carb diet 5,10,15,20 years ...those who argue against it simply don't have the hard data at the moment because no researchers would be funded by pharma for such "dangerous" studies...
     
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