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Libre sensors

Bogart99

Well-Known Member
Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Is it me or do others think these sensors, for those who cannot get for free, are a complete rip off.
At £50 a pop I think so. The manufacturing cost must be so minimal. I took one apart to have a look
not much to see there a small circuit board and a plastic outer. I was interested in the NFC chip it contains.
This chip has a deliberate timer of 15 days programmed into it whereas it could go on possibly for many
months if programmed so. The chip in question does not respond to an NFC chip reset program, a real pity.
 
Hi,

I believe it also has some sort of RFID antenna transmitting data to the reader device.
The battery could in my view do another 15 days? I once tested the longevity of the adhesive patch years ago & got bored after 20 days?
But I think the probe under the skin could naturally start to misinterpret interstitial levels due to the body’s defence rejecting the probe. (At a guess. Anther reason for removing the experiment after 20.)

I did use a third party reader app (better functions than Abbott’s) which could extend the life of the sensor by 6 or 8 hours?
What I found most of the time when extending further. The last 6 hours of life went on a “loop” transmitting a ghost echo of data.

I think there maybe some practicality regarding the “built in obsolescence” as it is engineered to be a medical device.
 
I suppose we have to pay for all the science and research that goes into the development of these sensors as well as the actual physical stuff. I use Dexcom ONE + on a ninety day subscription which cuts the daily cost down to £2.59/day as compared to the Libre 2 plus which is £3.45/day for a single purchase as Abbott don’t do subscriptions.
 
I assume that there is also the issue of approval for use as a medical device, and also how long it maintains the accuracy required for approval.
No doubt the price would come down if more devices came to the market.
However that takes time and money.
 
Is it me or do others think these sensors, for those who cannot get for free, are a complete rip off.
At £50 a pop I think so. The manufacturing cost must be so minimal. I took one apart to have a look
not much to see there a small circuit board and a plastic outer. I was interested in the NFC chip it contains.
This chip has a deliberate timer of 15 days programmed into it whereas it could go on possibly for many
months if programmed so. The chip in question does not respond to an NFC chip reset program, a real pity.
It is an expense that is not affordable by many. Some struggle to afford meter and strips.
Of course, as test strips are considered too expensive for NHS to provide for most people with T2, who are not on insulin, there is no chance at all for the sensors to be offeredThere is a good income stream to be had, though, for the manufacturers, provided by those who do use them. Why would they make them cheaper, if they are making sales?
 
Am surprised there is no chinese knock off out there yet.
Strangely. I’ve been searching to see if any of the components are Chinese?
Sometimes the country of origin just means “assembled” & packaged?
I know companies like Peavey suggested made in the USA back in the 80s & 90s? But many of the internal components where imported.

I also worked for an actuator company in the UK. The components were imported.

I did find the battery could be Japanese. (At least on the Libre 2.)

 
I assume that there is also the issue of approval for use as a medical device, and also how long it maintains the accuracy required for approval.
No doubt the price would come down if more devices came to the market.
However that takes time and money.
At a guess NHS bulk purchasing power could possibly lower the price per unit in comparison to a private consumer?
 
Is it me or do others think these sensors, for those who cannot get for free, are a complete rip off.
At £50 a pop I think so. The manufacturing cost must be so minimal. I took one apart to have a look
not much to see there a small circuit board and a plastic outer. I was interested in the NFC chip it contains.
This chip has a deliberate timer of 15 days programmed into it whereas it could go on possibly for many
months if programmed so. The chip in question does not respond to an NFC chip reset program, a real pity.
I know a bit about this.

The moment you insert a CGM, your immune system treats the microscopic filament as an invading hostile object.

First Days of Use: Your body sends inflammatory cells to investigate the CGM.

Later Days of Use: Your body's cells begin trying to wall off the sensor, coating it in a microscopic layer of protein, tissue, and bio-fouling (like barnacles on a the hull of a boat).

The Result: This cellular wall physically blocks glucose in your interstitial fluid from reaching the sensor's chemistry. If left in place too long, the readings drift drastically, which can lead to life-threatening errors in insulin dosing.

Most mainstream CGMs rely on an electrochemical reaction using an enzyme called 'glucose oxidase.'

This enzyme actively breaks down glucose molecules to generate the tiny electrical current your CGM measures.

Enzymes are fragile biological proteins. Over 10 to 15 days of continuous exposure to body heat, moving fluids, and metabolic waste, the chemistry literally degrades and burns out.

15 days is pushing the limits of 'medical-grade' adhesives exposed to daily showers, sweat, friction, and skin oils. Studies show that a primary cause of late-stage sensor failure isn't even the technology inside, but simply the tape peeling off or losing grip.

Keeping an active puncture wound covered in a damp, sweaty adhesive patch for longer than 15 days also exponentially increases the risk of severe skin irritation, contact dermatitis, and bacterial infection.

So why do CGM apps force a shutdown exactly at day 10 or 15 rather than letting it 'fade out' over a longer period?

The 'hard stop' is mandated by medical device regulatory bodies like the USA's FDA and UK MHRA. Because diabetics make important medical decisions based on the numbers CGMs produce, the devices must operate under a zero-tolerance policy for accuracy (albeit within tight margins compared to a blood fingerstick test, which remains the gold standard for at home testing). CGM manufacturers must mathematically prove to regulators that the sensor maintains an acceptable Mean Absolute Relative Difference during its entire lifespan. Because accuracy plunges steeply after the two-week mark, regulators force an automated kill-switch to keep users safe.

The above does not apply to the Eversense CGM which I understand uses a type of glucose sensor technology different from conventional CGMs.

Data suggests that it can cost between £15 million to £80 million to bring a new CGM to market. That contrasts with £730 million to £2 billion to make a new drug available to the public.

Pharmaceutical and Medical Tech companies are businesses answerable to their stakeholders (shareholders, banks, other creditors) who expect a return on their investment, money loaned to the business to be repaid, raw materials costs to be paid for, etc.
 
Hi
I was diagnosed in 1975 aged just 7 years old.
What little we had would be primitive today so i am grateful for what we do have.
I go to bed and the alarm could go off if my levels are too low too high or a lost connection and it is up to me to make a decision how i use the information to treat my condition.
I'm so very grateful for that ability supplied by my libre but i also know it is not accurate but its accurate enough for me.
@Bogart99 you fail to point out another serious failing as once the alarm goes low, in my case 3.2, it doesn't go off again until you rise above 3.2.
You would not know this as it doesn't apply to you.

Good luck

Tony
 
Hi
I was diagnosed in 1975 aged just 7 years old.
What little we had would be primitive today so i am grateful for what we do have.
I go to bed and the alarm could go off if my levels are too low too high or a lost connection and it is up to me to make a decision how i use the information to treat my condition.
I'm so very grateful for that ability supplied by my libre but i also know it is not accurate but its accurate enough for me.
@Bogart99 you fail to point out another serious failing as once the alarm goes low, in my case 3.2, it doesn't go off again until you rise above 3.2.
You would not know this as it doesn't apply to you.

Good luck

Tony

Hi,

76 for me on my 8th birthday. Early years just using “the force” on lows.
Lucky they always woke me. & still do.
Yep, I’m glad for having the Libre.

You know on some of the independent app like xDrip you can set a second alarm should you continue to drop lower?
Same with high alarms on continuing to rise?
So you could set another alarm to kick off below your “3.2” should you drop further?

The app should run alongside librelink. It does for me.
I tend to only use alarms on the one app & disable alarms on librelink.
 
Is it me or do others think these sensors, for those who cannot get for free, are a complete rip off.
At £50 a pop I think so. The manufacturing cost must be so minimal. I took one apart to have a look
not much to see there a small circuit board and a plastic outer. I was interested in the NFC chip it contains.
This chip has a deliberate timer of 15 days programmed into it whereas it could go on possibly for many
months if programmed so. The chip in question does not respond to an NFC chip reset program, a real pity.
 
I don’t really care how it’s made or what it contains as long as it does the job, but I’m afraid it doesn’t! Luckily my prescriptions are free but if was paying £50 a pop for 3 out of 5 to fail I’d be livid! They are exchanged by Abbott without fuss but no one has ever told me why they fail except it’s more than likely me - wrong software on phone, placed wrong , water got in etc I much prefer my blood pricking as it’s so much more reliable - 3 sensors failed because readings too low and 3 readings too high and 2 wouldn’t connect to Bluetooth so no alarms. Dangerous to say the least with those type of errors
 
As I say I only tried one out as it was free. I am not knocking what the thing did. I found it fascinating that it gives a 24 hour summary, not something finger pricking could do unless one is awake continously and you do not mind a finger full of holes. Just the price gets me. Somebody in an earlier post suggested it could cost £80m to get a unit to market.
Well divide that by the possible population using one and the cost per unit is a pittance.
 
Strangely. I’ve been searching to see if any of the components are Chinese?
Sometimes the country of origin just means “assembled” & packaged?
I know companies like Peavey suggested made in the USA back in the 80s & 90s? But many of the internal components where imported.

I also worked for an actuator company in the UK. The components were imported.

I did find the battery could be Japanese. (At least on the Libre 2.)

The tear down is interesting. I cannot recall what chip my NFC sensor said was inside it just that it could not be reset
to begin useage over again.
 
The tear down is interesting. I cannot recall what chip my NFC sensor said was inside it just that it could not be reset
to begin useage over again.
Hi,

What I did find out a year or so back is the old sensors can be re-used & utilised as “NFC tags?”
Would need the filliment taking off & a lot of cleaning of the used Libre.
 
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