Type 2 Liverdump. When does it quit?

[JoKalsbeek]

For the first time since starting on this journey, I've skipped breakfast. And I've been at a steady 6.2 (!!!) since 6 a.m.... It's been three hours, and it's still 6.2. Basically, my liver's dumping like mad, and my numbers are higher than when I have a breakfast of +/- 10 grams of carbs at 6 a.m. (Have to add it was a rather sleepless night to boot). I was kinda hoping I could lie in a bit on the weekend, but it's looking like I'll have to stick with breakfast... Our cat's on insulin (diabetic since his pancreatitis), so I can't avoid waking up, or I mess up his regime. Just had hoped I could give him his kibble and Lantus and sleep on. Since I'm up and eating at six during weekdays, I don't suppose it's something my liver can get used to during the weekend eh? Any idea when the liverdump stops? My husband's in the shower so when he's done we're going to eat anyway, but I wonder... If I don't eat until noon (which isn't a possibility today), would my liver keep dumping until I finally eat? Thanks!

 

[Deleted Account]

The liver dump never stops. Most people experience it whether they have diabetes or not: it is your body's way of giving you energy to start your day.
The different between people with and without diabetes is those without diabetes have a healthy pancreas that releases sufficient insulin to convert the glucose from your liver into the energy you need.
So, I guess the answer you really want is when will your pancreas "recover" sufficiently to do this.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks for replying! I know it's a normal bodily function, one I need... I just wonder if it'll stop only when I eat carbs. I could just go for my bulletproof coconut cinnamon drink, and there's almost no carbs in there, (one gram, maybe 1,5) so whether my liver would take the hint to stop dumping for that morning? I guess I'll find out tomorrow. I'll give it a try then! Right now my sugar's 7.6, which is high for me, two hours after breakfast. It's just a 1.4 increase from where I left off, but still. Ah wel. Time to hit the road for today, and experience spring!

 

[Pinkorchid]

my liver keep dumping until I finally eat? Thanks!

I do not think it works like that many people here do not eat breakfast but have not said that their liver keeps on dumping. A fasting level of 6.2 is not really high some have a much higher level than that in the morning.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I find that cream stops mine. (with coffee), doesn't make me go very much higher, and then only briefly. I soon start to drop back to my normal base level.

If we are higher than acceptable in the mornings, I personally can see no sense in eating carbs, as this will simply add to the dumped glucose that has not been cleared by the pancreas. The effects of this are seen more clearly when wearing a Libre sensor.

 

[Guzzler]

I agree with that already said. Try something fatty as soon after waking and testing as you can and this may see results but as the liver dumps can be a direct consequence of IR it could take a while. Keep doing what you are doing. My FBGs are quite high, much higher than I am comfortable with but a creamy coffee does eventually curb the dumping. Good luck.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have just said this on another thread. An example of FBG being a mystery. Yesterday I was 4.8. This morning I was 6.0.

My Libre has expired and those readings are all I have. My only thinking is it happened because I woke earlier than normal and went for a wee. Got back in bed for a lie in. Didn't test. I didn't sleep, but lay there making plans. Got up half an hour later and tested to see the 6.0. (tested twice) That is high for me. I am rarely above 5.4. If I had eaten even a small amount of carbs, that 6 would have gone up even more, maybe to 7.0. As it is, after a coffee and cream, it is still 6.

 

[MikeyU]

I have a working theory about the dumps, at least kind of working in my case, I need more data to confirm but it kind of worked this morning. Yesterday I wrote about it in another thread, I exercise a lot, my energy demands are quite high and metabolic rate is way up. Couple of weeks ago I completely cut carbs for breakfast, and my fbg started climbing up, day by day, higher and higher. Liver just kept dumping and dumping, until lunch, when I had some carbs. Yesterday, my fbg was 6.8, had protein and fats only breakfast and 2 hrs postprandial was 7.5, by lunch time it climbed all the way to 8. It started slowly going down after carby lunch (well, carbs from veggies etc.). I ate 200 grams of strawberries and blueberries with some Skyr yogurt in the afternoon, and then some more strawberries for dessert after dinner. This morning my fbg was 5.8, for breakfast I had carbs, 2 slices of wholemeal rye bread and some cottage cheese, 2 hr postprandial reading of 6.3, before lunch 6.1. This is much better than yesterday when I had no carbs till lunch.

My theory is that (in my case) due to higher energy demands of (my) body, protein and fats breakfast does not stop my liver from dumping, either due to my body not recognizing it as sufficient source of energy or that due to gluconeogenesis being a relatively slow process (it takes hours to convert protein and fat to glucose) and the liver, anticipating large energy demand, just keeps dumping and dumping until it gets a signal to stop when some carbs are eaten.

I will be testing this theory in the next few days

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks you guys! This helps! Will keep trying out things in the next couple of days, see what responds and how. A Libre would be so convenient right about now, but alas... Don't have the funds, and it isn't covered in my Dutch insurance. But I'm actually starting to get a little excited about my experiment now.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I had an alarming liver dump at the start of the week.
9.5 on waking, and 9.6 two and a half hours later, despite the cream/butter/coffee.

I was really worried, and started on a low calorie LCHF push immediately.

The next day it was 6.8 and 7.6 so coming down a little but still not good.

I then fasted for a blood test at 11:00 the next day but forgot to test first thing (which is a shame).
I had coffee/cream/butter around mid-day but nothing else.
I tested at about 18:00 before my evening meal and was down to 3.9.

I'm still trying to work this out, but I think that I had loaded up my liver and the rest of my body with glucose by poor eating choices and drinking continental beer.
A couple of days of no booze and eating very little seems to have flushed out all the spare glucose so that my liver doesn't have much to dump, and my fasting BG was 5.3 this morning and 4.4 just before the evening meal.

Everyone is different, but I think one way to check if you have a bit too much glucose in your system is to fast (or at least cut back enormously on the food) and see if your BG levels come down. From my very recent experience it is likely to take at least a couple of days to make a difference.

Eating carbohydrates will stop the liver dumping (because you are getting the carbohydrates from your food). However it may be that the carbohydrates are topping up your liver and it will always dump if you don't eat.

As I say, I am still trying to work this one out and everyone is different.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

The bulletproof drink this morning didn't stop the dump, (it's still dumping now), so yeah... I'll have a little bit of carbs in about half an hour and see if that helps! (About half my usual breakfast, probably. Aiming for 5 grams of carbs). Like you said, everyone is different. I wish that wasn't true. A clear one-size-fits-all solution would be so nice! Too bad it doesn't work that way... Trial and error it is then, for now.