Living without taking insulin, an experiment

[mrman]

Crazy

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[paul-1976]

Crazy

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It may appear so BUT N=1 experiments have proved very useful in the past,such as James Young Simpson who experimented on himself(and others) using Chloroform as an alternative to Ether as an anesthetic for surgical procedures.

 

[mrman]

don't need the book thanks, type 1s need basal at a minimum. If you then have an intensive excercise program whilst reducing carbs you would of course need little to no bolus insulin, as long as other factors where not involved such as insulin resistance,illness, stress,other medical conditions etc.

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[hanadr]

Saturday

Yesterday I exercised on my wife’s exercise bike, built up a sweat, and the experiment had started. Saturday morning I started my new diet, and no insulin except my morning Insulatard. It being Saturday I then went out in the garage and fiddled with my car, so I did move around a bit, but not really anything hard. First test was then a few hours after breakfast, would the blood sugar be as it should. It was not, I was 17 mmol, and I was about to give up, this wouldn’t work I thought. Well, back to the garage, and strangely, when I measured before lunch I was 6.6. I think the Insulatard had started to kick in. In the afternoon I was actually a bit low, needed something to get me up again, and without any insulin before lunch! Was it working after all? It seemed so. I probably overshot a bit, I was 11.2 before dinner, but only 6.1 before sleep. So a mixed day.

I know it’s too early to tell, but maybe I need to split the insulatard in two, maybe 3 units before sleep and 5 in the morning. Well, for now I’ll keep to my game plan. In the evening I played tennis for an hour, got sweaty again. (Everytime I exercise I keep at it until I’m really sweaty).

Adam
I doubt if you will be able to keep your blood glucose level safe for long without insulin. You certainly won't if you consume carbs. I suspect that somethig like an Atkins Induction diet, would work for a little while. Definitely you need to know just how low a non-diabetic BG is [It's around 5.] If you go into double figures, you are probably damaging yourself.
Hana

 

[hanadr]

Adam
I doubt if you will be able to keep your blood glucose level safe for long without insulin. You certainly won't if you consume carbs. I suspect that somethig like an Atkins Induction diet, would work for a little while. Definitely you need to know just how low a non-diabetic BG is [It's around 5.] If you go into double figures, you are probably damaging yourself.
Hana

PS Dr. Bernstein uses what he calls the "doctrine of small numbers". that means ulta low carbs working with very low doses of insulin. I'm sure I read somewhere that you shouldn't need more than 7 units bolus for any meal. I'd suggest you read Bernstein.
Hana

 

[Ambersilva]

I think your thread title was a bit misleading, "Living without taking insulin, an experiment". It gave the reader the impression that you had every intention of completely withdrawing from administering insulin. By reading through your posts it was evident that you were still administering Insultard which is absorbed slowly during the day. Insultard acts in same way as naturally produced insulin and helps glucose enter cells from the blood.

 

[AdamAdam]

No offence but this is probably most stupidest experiment ever! If your pancreas fails to deliver insulin which you need to live or else cells die! These experiments really hold diabetics behind. Do something more useful, experiment with diets perhaps? Do high carb low fat then switch to low carb high fat? Now your making progress...

 

[Scardoc]

Possibly one of the most worrying threads I have ever read.

The human body is perhaps the most complex, sophisticated and well balanced thing on the face of the Earth. Unfortunately, us T1 diabetics have had our balance knocked and need to do our best to replicate it. If insulin was not required I feel pretty confident evolution would have got rid years ago.

Also, regarding exercise, for the last six years as a T1 I can say with confidence that regular exercise will lower your insulin requirements. Not eliminate it but lower it. But comments like this should be treated with severe caution:

"If you then have an intensive excercise program whilst reducing carbs you would of course need little to no bolus insulin,"

Training at high intensity will increase your blood sugar levels. Having too little insulin in your body will lock that sugar out of your cells. I need to inject insulin during interval training to manage my blood sugar.

Each individual needs to learn as they go along with their exercise by monitoring closely for a long time to see the pattern. I can run up to 3 miles at an easy pace with little effect on my BG levels. Over that I need a jelly baby a mile to avoid hypo. 3 miles at high intensity I need a small amount of insulin first. There's no one size fits all.

Take care people.

 

[ancientdiabetic]

Well I think you should go for it. . as far as I can see all treatments of diabetes is very hit and miss. . trial and error. . .but I think you have hit the nail on the head re exercise lowering blood glucose levels I think if your test is to work you may have to eliminate most of your carbs . . .I suspect your test will be very positive if you continue with basal ins
Good luck keep us informed .
Ancient

 

[ElyDave]

So what you've shown is that if you restrict your carbs, you can get away with basal only, but if you eat lots of carbs you need bolus insulin as well?

How is that a revolutionary experiment?

 

[xxjessyxx]

It might work for a while but it won't keep so simple, I did the stupid thing of stopping my insulin to lose weight I managed it for 8 months taking a little here a little there and then the ketones took hold I ended up with DKA, I ended up with water on the brain. The doctors told my parents I was in a critical state it was a hit and go thankfully I came through but I would never mess with my insulin as with diabetes it can take control quickly or slowly.

 

[nmr1991]

My story is sort of the opposite, I eat on average 400 calories a day making me even more underweight and malnourished, but this is because of financial difficulties of living as a student, yet I have more than enough insulin to give myself. However i'm not giving myself insulin most days because I fear I will get a hypo and I have nothing to eat or drink to make it go away, I just wish the finance support would understand this.

 

[ElyDave]

ElyDave, reading your not very encouraging comments, I was surprised to see this "Don't let worn out beliefs stop you from moving beyond yourself". Can't you see that's exactly what I'm not doing?

No, you are simply demosntrating an already established understadning of how insulin needs are affected by exercise and diet.

On the days I exercise heavily my insulin needs are massively reduced. On days when I exercise within 4 hours of a meal time bolus, I either need to eat more carbs or reduce my dose and let the exercise take care of blood sugar management.

All I'm doing is exactly the same experiment as you from a different direction - that's why I'm saying what you are doing is not revolutionary; and this thread title is still incorrect as you are not living without insulin, just restricting your diet to avoid the need for bolus insulin.

 

[mo1905]

Adam, whilst I don't fully agree with your experiment, it's your life and your body. What makes it a little less plausible is that you make no bones about the fact you're trying to sell a book off the back of it ! Good luck with your "experiment" but I sincerely hope there aren't those vulnerable insulin dependant diabetics reading this thread and deciding to copy you !


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[mo1905]

As I clearly and repeatedly state, if this has your interest, consult your physician.

And yes, I'd like to sell books, but I'm doing this to increase my own quality of diabetes-life, which it has, that's worth so much more to me. I'm in better shape, numbers are better, I'll probably live several years longer. And of course I wanted to share my good fortune if it could help others, but the feedback I've gotten has mainly been negative. So why bother...?

Over and out

I agree you've stated many times to consult with docs etc but there are quite a few here who do not have a good relationship with docs and will heed any forum advice offered. Not saying that's your fault. I also am pleased you are reaping the benefits and, although not exactly ground breaking, some of what you say can certainly help others. Good luck.


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[phoenix]

Insulin is insulin it's just varied to alter the time it remains in the body so insulatard is synthetic insulin with protamine in it to make it slower.
Back in the 1970s lots of people were controlling their diabetes on one or two injections of lente or intermediate a day others just using a couple of injections of soluble (regular ) a day . They controlled when and how many carbs they ate to take account of the insulins profile. It worked well for some and there are many people who have survived from this era with no complications (sadly, not all, and at that time they only had urine tests)

Modern insulin regimes are more flexible and for many people, if they learn to adjust carefully, this can result in lower HbA1cs. Your background insulin+ exercise is probably 'covering' your meals. A properly adjusted background insulin should result in no big drops if no food is eaten. (more difficult with insulatard than lantus or levimir because it has a peak) It may be that you could use less background but some bolus with meals and (hopefully because we are all different!) get lower results.
(you mentioned an HbA1c of 7-7.9% )
I'm not sure what you mean by 1/4, meat, 1/4, starchy carbs and 1/2 veg. If you mean that's what your plate looks like then it's what I use (and a very common method used in diabetes education, at least outside the UK) but I still take meal time boluses.

(you might like to see a documentary about children at a DUK camp in the 1970s . They are all on one or two injections a day and in the first part I've linked to they talk about the different regimes.)

 

[xxjessyxx]

adam_abash no my sugars would rise then would drop to 2 on my blood sugar machine they were inconsistent


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[ann34+]

i agree with all those people warning of the dangers of playing about discussing whether a Type one can manage without insulin. a coma is not a joke, mine, on diagnosis, was a life and health changing happening - weeks afterwards my consultant said my body had had a battering and it might take a year or two to recover - it took longer. i

It is dangerous to discuss this in this way - possibly influencing others who may not realise that Type ones are not all the same. Some Type ones DO have residual insulin, i believe more do now as they are diagnoses earlier - and a lot of exercise and diet change does, in any Type one, reduce needs a lot, but some Type ones do not have any residual insulin. They would be in serious danger in a very short time, without some insulin.

I was given less than 20% chance of life, had some days in intensive care, some thankfully temporary organ damage, and weeks in hospital and years to recover. I had been managing, with symptoms which were ignored or misdiagnosed by docs despite my visits, as they thought i looked ok. Then i got an ear infection i was not even aware of - one day i was fine and in hours i was comatose.