Long term low carbers following Bernsteins advice?

[mehhh2015]

I thought it would be more appropriate to post this pic on this thread:

I am into nutritional ketosis thanks to a ketogenic diet, I don't have Ketoacidosis (DKA), hope that helps to clarify it:

 

[mehhh2015]

And this graphic is very illustrative, someone posted it in another thread and I liked it :

 

[mehhh2015]

More discussions on the matter and interesting reading:

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/is-ketosis-necessary-on-a-low-carb-diet-lets-ask-the-experts/2264

 

[mehhh2015]

And this is Peter Attia's blog, lots of info there, very very detailed:

http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-ketosis-dangerous

 

[Ian DP]

More discussions on the matter and interesting reading:

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/is-ketosis-necessary-on-a-low-carb-diet-lets-ask-the-experts/2264

Interesting.... Seems like another grey area!

 

[mehhh2015]

Yes, particularly after long term lowcarbing but doesn't stop the diet been ketogenic.

I know long term non diabetic low carbers that after a year still have ketones in their ketostixs, can't comment on the contrary case cause I haven't met or personally seen any, I doubt ketosis stops if you are running on fats, but that is as I understand it. I might be wrong.

You said you were 99% sure you were on a ketogenic diet though, we are both doing Berstein, but maybe the case is that you are not having ketones ?(assuming you have been tested at some point while dieting at your nurse or something, mine asked me for urines next time I see her) .

I would test out of curiosity if nothing else. I only test cause I was given the ketostixs in case my BGs went high after leaving the hospital, but always had known ketosis breath. I've been having purple sticks every time I tested (occasionally I admit not everyday or anything like it) including morning fasting.

Personally, I'm in ketosis though (I will trust the sticks since that is what they used when I was in hospital), following Bersteins protocol of 6-12-12, eating 7oz plus of protein a day and enough fat. The picture I just took it after coming home, less than six hours after eating, and after coming back from training.

If you find out that you don't have ketones, it would be great to know and see if that is the long term consequences of Dr. Bersteins approach?

 

[mehhh2015]

In Peter Attias blog there is a lot of info about the composition of ketones, etc. I found it very informative.

 

[tim2000s]

Typically, while you produce ketones as a waste product, after a few weeks I found that while my blood ketone levels remained higher, I stopped showing up on ketostix.

 

[mehhh2015]

Oh I saw this!!!! It might be helpful... if one can get to ask a few questions , I can't make it though, but maybe you can?

Dr. Bernstein will participate in another 60 minute TeleSeminar and Webcast on Wednesday February 25th, 2015, at 7PM CST, 8PM EST, 6PM MST , 5PM PST, designed to answer your most important questions concerning diabetes and his thoughts on the latest developments in this area. The seminar is FREE but seating will be limited and you must register.

 

[mehhh2015]

Typically, while you produce ketones as a waste product, after a few weeks I found that while my blood ketone levels remained higher, I stopped showing up on ketostix.

So basically, it didn't show on your stick but it showed in your blood tests? Was that after long term low carbing following bersteins or in any other diet?

 

[tim2000s]

So basically, it didn't show on your stick but it showed in your blood tests? Was that after long term low carbing following bersteins or in any other diet?

That was just after a month of eating sub-40g per day.

 

[Ian DP]

Oh I saw this!!!! It might be helpful... if one can get to ask a few questions , I can't make it though, but maybe you can?

Dr. Bernstein will participate in another 60 minute TeleSeminar and Webcast on Wednesday February 25th, 2015, at 7PM CST, 8PM EST, 6PM MST , 5PM PST, designed to answer your most important questions concerning diabetes and his thoughts on the latest developments in this area. The seminar is FREE but seating will be limited and you must register.

Apparently someone asked him if he was ketogenic a few weeks back, and he answered that he sometime is, sometimes not.... Normal BG levels is the important thing, not ketogenic.

 

[mehhh2015]

But his diet is still the same even if it doesnt show ketones....So in my personal opinion judging all the inputs plus what Ive read plus my personal experience: it is ketogenic. Sometimes it shows sometimes it doesn't so far for me, in my body his diet IS ketogenic as I am producing ketones while doing it and it IS showing. Same as Atkins induction who openly says is ketogenic and is exactly the same diet. So if it is the same diet approach to me it is ketogenic. No one else has to share my opinion though, neither I want you to feel Im forcing my view on anyone. I would still love talk to him in that seminar. And yes, to me, the BGs is the most important aspect of it all in terms of my diabetes. In terms of my weightloss I think a ketogenic diet is a positive thing as it works for me.

 

[Wurst]

I followed the Bernstein way for almost 3 years but found it has caused other health issues. Firstly I have elevated LDL cholesterol , for which I am now begrudgingly on statins and a low fat diet. Also i experienced reduced kidney function, my GFR was in the 60's so I had to cut down on the protein. I went on to a cabbage based diet 3 months ago which reversed the kidney problem GFR is now in the 80's.

So I've discovered I can't eat a high fat , medium protein , low carb diet without other problems. Blood sugar has been fantastic though.

 

[Clivethedrive]

I followed the Bernstein way for almost 3 years but found it has caused other health issues. Firstly I have elevated LDL cholesterol , for which I am now begrudgingly on statins and a low fat diet. Also i experienced reduced kidney function, my GFR was in the 60's so I had to cut down on the protein. I went on to a cabbage based diet 3 months ago which reversed the kidney problem GFR is now in the 80's.

So I've discovered I can't eat a high fat , medium protein , low carb diet without other problems. Blood sugar has been fantastic though.

Interesting thanks for sharing :)

 

[Winnie53]

Ian, I started reading some of your first posts last night, but so far, haven't come across posts in which you talk about what you went through following diagnosis to get your blood glucose into the normal range. I ask because my fasting blood sugar has stalled at 160 for three days. My lowest reading to date is 143, my highest 297 (on day 3 after I ate out and had halibut coated with potato, a salad, and braised cabbage with goat cheese; I now think the dressing had sugar in it). I'm only eating Bernstein approved foods, and I checked last night to insure I'm in ketosis. I am.

Today is day 10 for me. Did this process take weeks or months for you?

Actually, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who went from a high A1C - (mine was 9.9) - down to a normal range without taking medication. What most would help me now is having realistic expectations.

 

[Ian DP]

Hi Winnie

I was diagnosed T2 in September 2013. My BG levels were around the 30.0 (540) mark and I had high ketoacidocis and was rushed to hospital where I was put on Metformin and Gliclazide and stayed there for 24hrs until my BG levels dropped to 15.0 (270). Because I was not overweight and had lost 14lb over the previous few months I asked for a GAD test, this came back positive at over 2,000, so in December 2013 I was diagnosed T1, in the honeymoon period (LADA), and told to stop taking both Metformin and Gliclazide, and to come back in a few weeks time when my BG levels were around 10.0 (180) when they would put me on insulin. In March I was given an insulin pen, to use when my BG levels rose. But I have not used it to date.

My hba1c in sep 2013 was 9.4%. In dec 2013 it was 6.3%, gradually reducing to Dec 2014 when it was 5.1%. Feb 15 now 5.5%.

I had started to lowish carb (probably around 150g per day) on T2 Diagnosis. On T1 diagnosis I started to read this forum and this lead to me eating to my meter and thus gradually my carb intake reduced further, then in July 2014 I read / started to follow Dr Bernstein's solution with a diet of 36g carbs. This reduced my BG levels further (almost immediately) and they stayed pretty much constant until January this year when I had a couple of viruses and travelled to Australia. During January they reached 7.0 (126) a couple of times and I wondered if this had caused any beta cell damage.

But over the last two weeks we have been at home, no travelling, no viruses, and my BG levels have returned to my July 2014 levels when I started with Dr B's solution, so hoping that I am still some way off of regular BG levels of 7.0 (126)..... Time will tell

 

[Winnie53]

Ian, thank you. I know it's getting late there...one clarifying question. Were you on Metformin and Gliclazide from the time of your initial hospitalization until December? Is that how you got your blood glucose levels down? Heading to work now.

 

[Ian DP]

After just a few weeks (oct 2013) my BG levels had dropped and I started to reduce the amount of Gliclazide I was taking, then I stopped the Gliclazide mid oct (I had had a few very low readings (3.2 -57)). By November I had also reduced the Metformin.

 

[Winnie53]

Thanks Ian. That's helpful. If I'm understanding you correctly, you stopped all diabetes medication in December 2013, never used the insulin pen given to you in March 2014, and continued on the Bernstein diet. That's really impressive.

One more question... You stated today "My hba1c in sep 2013 was 9.4%. In dec 2013 it was 6.3%, gradually reducing to Dec 2014 when it was 5.1%. Feb 15 now 5.5%.". Ian, I know you may not remember, but was it a gradual reduction in blood glucose over that three month period from September to December 2013? In other words, did it take you the full three months on diabetes medication to get from 9.4% to 6.3%?

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. With the exception of one reading, I've stayed consistently in the 197 - 143 blood glucose range for 7 days, which isn't bad considering where I started. I just don't know what to expect over the next month.

I think I'm going to head over to the Diabetes 2 area and make inquiries there too, though I do understand that many there aren't doing the Bernstein diet or LCHF diet. Will wait and see what responses I get tomorrow. (We're just getting ready to sit down for dinner here.)