Long term low carbers following Bernsteins advice?

[jack412]

I followed the Bernstein way for almost 3 years but found it has caused other health issues. Firstly I have elevated LDL cholesterol , for which I am now begrudgingly on statins and a low fat diet. Also i experienced reduced kidney function, my GFR was in the 60's so I had to cut down on the protein. I went on to a cabbage based diet 3 months ago which reversed the kidney problem GFR is now in the 80's.

So I've discovered I can't eat a high fat , medium protein , low carb diet without other problems. Blood sugar has been fantastic though.

that was bad luck, most people are fine overall
you shouldn't eat too much protein on a ketogenic LCHF and there is data that it's good for CKD
keto is statistically better than low fat for many markers

it's 50/50 whether your LDL goes up or down, if you are ketogenic ..you need fluffy LDL to carry the fats to burn
your HDL normally goes up and trigs TG drop [marker for small dense LDL]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2zoDsVimyw

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8BY4fyLvZc

 

[Ian DP]

Thanks Ian. That's helpful. If I'm understanding you correctly, you stopped all diabetes medication in December 2013, never used the insulin pen given to you in March 2014, and continued on the Bernstein diet. That's really impressive.

One more question... You stated today "My hba1c in sep 2013 was 9.4%. In dec 2013 it was 6.3%, gradually reducing to Dec 2014 when it was 5.1%. Feb 15 now 5.5%.". Ian, I know you may not remember, but was it a gradual reduction in blood glucose over that three month period from September to December 2013? In other words, did it take you the full three months on diabetes medication to get from 9.4% to 6.3%?

Correct. I have an hba1c check done around every 3 months. 1st one was in sept 2013 (9.4%), 2nd one in dec 2013 (6.3%) so I don't know what happened in between..... But checking my BG reading, there was a sharp fall in readings in sept and oct, then a gradual reduction through to December, but during that time My BG were like a roller coaster lots of highs in the 8s even 10s and lows, this was when I was starting to see the food type carb effect.

 

[Winnie53]

Ian, that's similar to what's happening to me. My fasting BG was dropping an average of 13 a day, then it slowed to and average of 8 a day, and then I plateaued for three days at 160 mg/dL (8.9 mmol). But throughout the day, my BG is really up and down by an average of 46 over the last 11 days.

I think I'm going to start tracking my blood sugar more aggressively tomorrow: fasting, prior to eating, and two hours after eating. That way I can see how much I'm swinging up and down, also how the food I'm eating is affecting me. I'm making progress. I started with a fasting BG of 254 mg/dL (14.1) and am now at 160 mg/dL (8.9 mmol). That's a 37% decrease in BG 11 days.

Jack, those videos look interesting. Will watch them in the morning after I've gotten some sleep.

 

[jack412]

Ian, that's similar to what's happening to me. My fasting BG was dropping an average of 13 a day, then it slowed to and average of 8 a day, and then I plateaued for three days at 160 mg/dL (8.9 mmol). But throughout the day, my BG is really up and down by an average of 46 over the last 11 days.

I think I'm going to start tracking my blood sugar more aggressively tomorrow: fasting, prior to eating, and two hours after eating. That way I can see how much I'm swinging up and down, also how the food I'm eating is affecting me. I'm making progress. I started with a fasting BG of 254 mg/dL (14.1) and am now at 160 mg/dL (8.9 mmol). That's a 37% decrease in BG 11 days.

Jack, those videos look interesting. Will watch them in the morning after I've gotten some sleep.

this blood one is worth looking at too
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BFRi-nH1v8

 

[Ian DP]

Winnie
Try testing before and one hour after a meal. Then only test at 2 hrs after the meal if that one hour test is high. This way you will find out what foods are raising your BG levels. I read that you are still eating chocolate and a few other foods that would certainly raise my BG levels. But some people can take some carby meals, but you only know through testing. Snacking and drinks with milk between meals also raise my BG levels. I don't eat at all between meals and only drink water between meals now.

 

[Winnie53]

That's a good idea Ian. I'll start testing an hour after eating to get a better idea of how I'm reacting to food. The chocolate is a bit deceptive. It's a 0.35 oz square of 70% cocoa, dark chocolate, my only indulgence. Not sure if I'll give it up or not. For now, it's keeping me going.

At this time, I'm only eating from Bernstein's approved foods list so I think I'm doing okay. But I do understand the importance of making adjustments based on the BG's reaction to each food. As for beverages, I drink one 8 oz coffee in the morning - (I use 1 T of ground coffee to insure I'm not over doing it) - filtered water throughout the day, one green tea every 1-2 days, and 1 chamomile tea before bed.

Now that I've made progress and am feeling more comfortable, I'll step up the BG monitoring and continue adjusting what I'm eating. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about this with you all. I'm learning a lot and making adjustments as I go. Going to try to get a wee bit more sleep now.

 

[Winnie53]

Okay, I've been looking up the carb, fat, protein profiles of the foods I've been eating. Not happy about the additional ingredients in my breakfast link sausage - (Pork, water, corn syrup and less than 2% of the following: natural pork broth with natural flavorings, salt, dextrose, monosodium glutamate, lemon juice powder (corn syrup solids, lemon juice solids, natural flavors), flavorings, BHA, propyl gallate, citric acid, collagen casing) - so am going to either eat bacon only or switch to a local brand I'm familiar with that has no additional ingredients.

Oh, and here's the profile for the 0.35 oz square of 70% cocoa, dark chocolate: 4.25 g carb, 4.75 g fat, 0.75 protein, 3 g sugar. If I don't tolerate it, not sure what I'll do. I may half it!

My first BG 1 hour after breakfast was good: fasting BG 159, 1-hour BG 161.

Lisa

 

[Ian DP]

Process food.... That's why many say avoid it. Even bacon is processed. I try to avoid processed food when I can, that said I have bacon every day for breakfast!.

 

[tim2000s]

I guess it depends on the source of your food. If you know and trust the producer, bacon and sausages can be fine!

 

[Winnie53]

Thanks Jack for posting the two videos, also a link to the third video. Spent the day watching them. Now that I have an overview on the science, I'm probably going to watch them again to see what I can glean from them. I found myself pausing the videos quite a bit so I could look periodically look up what they were talking about. Both presenters offered information on blood lipid panels which was interesting. Sounds like it's the triglycerides that we need to pay the most attention to and the LCHF diet is a good way to get that number down.

 

[Winnie53]

Tim and Ian, I have to say, the more I learn about food the more particular I'm becoming about who to buy food from. Luckily, we have a wonderful source here for bacon and sausage. So good, healthy too!

 

[jack412]

Thanks Jack for posting the two videos, also a link to the third video. Spent the day watching them. Now that I have an overview on the science, I'm probably going to watch them again to see what I can glean from them. I found myself pausing the videos quite a bit so I could look periodically look up what they were talking about. Both presenters offered information on blood lipid panels which was interesting. Sounds like it's the triglycerides that we need to pay the most attention to and the LCHF diet is a good way to get that number down.

that's it in a nutshell, I didn't know what triglyceride was before I was T2
you did well..they are lectures to people who know this stuff..

 

[mehhh2015]

Ian, I started reading some of your first posts last night, but so far, haven't come across posts in which you talk about what you went through following diagnosis to get your blood glucose into the normal range. I ask because my fasting blood sugar has stalled at 160 for three days. My lowest reading to date is 143, my highest 297 (on day 3 after I ate out and had halibut coated with potato, a salad, and braised cabbage with goat cheese; I now think the dressing had sugar in it). I'm only eating Bernstein approved foods, and I checked last night to insure I'm in ketosis. I am.

Today is day 10 for me. Did this process take weeks or months for you?

Actually, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who went from a high A1C - (mine was 9.9) - down to a normal range without taking medication. What most would help me now is having realistic expectations.

Hi there, just thought to drop a comment about this.

I was prescribed Gliclazide and Metformin when I left the hospital. I thought immediately that Gliclazide was completely the wrong protocol for me as I am insulin resistant (therefore always been on Metformin for years).

I took Gliclazide for 2 weeks (under my other half pressure), my BG didn't come down below 7's. In total it took me 3 weeks and half to come down to the 4's. I've lost so far 6KG (1 stone).

I stopped Gliclazide the day I saw my nurse for the first time and explained her that I thought that was the wrong approach for a insulin resistant person. My BGs went dramatically down after I stopped it.

I can't see how making the pancreas overwork is a way to sorting out a problem for somebody that has been overproducing insulin for quite a while.

I know I was over producing insulin because my acne came back in full rage, which is a consequence of excess testosterone by the stimulus of the insulin over the ovaries. It took a few weeks to clear. Its gone now.

If you read the effects of gliclazide one of them is weight gain... and that only means in me, excess insulin circulating in my insulin resistant body.

When I am stable in my BGs at 4's and I have lost most of the weight I will reduce Metformin. But I don't think I will completely stop it as I do think it really helps my Insulin Resistance which in me I strongly believe is genetic and not just a consequence of being overweight, being overweight just exacerbates it. As I always had belly fat (even when slim) I will keep taking it but at a lower dosage.

The weight loss drops and BG drops had gone hand in hand for me, they seem to stay constant for a while, and then drop a bit more.

My period affects my BG rising it slightly but I'm still below around 5.6 most of the time. I have been having a few rough days and not feeling well at the moment plus lots of stress, I think this all has raised BG slightly but I think it will come down to the 4's soon after this time is over. Activity levels during the day def affects my BG.

Normal milk definitely a no no for me. Lactofree works great or cream. Chocolate is ok with me but I only eat tiny minuscule portions, I just don't need lots to feel satisfied.

Processed foods are hard to handle precisely because of the corn syrup and other sugars they add to them. Sourcing good food is very important. And sticking to the least processed food works for me.

 

[mehhh2015]

I've got rid of 2 teeth that were treated for years with root canal treatments to no avail. Dr. B says teeth infections affects BG's.

I'm still healing and it still hurts, my BG's are slightly raised but I think it will all normalize in a few days. I haven't been eating properly lately though... lots of meal skipping and having to eat whatever I come across within reason. Lentils definitely I can eat. Been all over the place stresswise but I am sure it will become better soon. Dr. B says stress doesn't affect BG's... I believe in me it does. Been sticking to the right foods but not been eating by the 6-12-12 rule over the last few days.

One of my problems is high cholesterol, which I suspect is also genetic in me, I'm curious to see what will happen in April when I will have all my tests done again. I expect to see an improvement in everything except my cholesterol. We will see.

 

[mehhh2015]

I followed the Bernstein way for almost 3 years but found it has caused other health issues. Firstly I have elevated LDL cholesterol , for which I am now begrudgingly on statins and a low fat diet. Also i experienced reduced kidney function, my GFR was in the 60's so I had to cut down on the protein. I went on to a cabbage based diet 3 months ago which reversed the kidney problem GFR is now in the 80's.

So I've discovered I can't eat a high fat , medium protein , low carb diet without other problems. Blood sugar has been fantastic though.

I used to eat lots of cabbage soup, I haven't done it recently but I suspect is a good thing. I don't eat excess protein at all enither excess fat, just enough to keep me satisfied. I believe that my cholesterol is the only thing I won't see improvements on. But particle size matters, nevertheless I would prefer to have normal cholesterol levels if I could achieve them without messing up with my BGs.

 

[mehhh2015]

Mmmm, actually I just had a look at my mouth, I have an infection going on in one the teeth.

This probably IS the reason for my higher BG's. I am also feeling run down, my husband has been sick with flu/cold over the last few days so I might had caught that as well... still for how bad I feel I don't think my BG's are that bad... I guess... thanks to not eating carbs...

 

[mehhh2015]

Still feeling utterly rough, got some antibiotics prescribed this afternoon for the infection. My BG's had remained constant below 5.6 mainly in the low 5's most of the time. I expect to see the numbers fall again as the infection goes away. Really not eating properly at all at the moment Berstein's wise...

 

[LucySW]

I find it useful to see that type 1's also improve with the same diet.

They certainly do. I'm one and BGs have stabilised round 5.6 because of it.

 

[LucySW]

But his diet is still the same even if it doesnt show ketones....So in my personal opinion judging all the inputs plus what Ive read plus my personal experience: it is ketogenic. Sometimes it shows sometimes it doesn't so far for me, in my body his diet IS ketogenic as I am producing ketones while doing it and it IS showing. Same as Atkins induction who openly says is ketogenic and is exactly the same diet. So if it is the same diet approach to me it is ketogenic. No one else has to share my opinion though, neither I want you to feel Im forcing my view on anyone. I would still love talk to him in that seminar. And yes, to me, the BGs is the most important aspect of it all in terms of my diabetes. In terms of my weightloss I think a ketogenic diet is a positive thing as it works for me.

I don't see how the Bernstein diet could not be ketogenic. I follow it, and Im certainly in ketosis permanently. (I have a Ketonix and can check.)