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Losing weight the old fashioned way

Discussion in 'Low Calorie Diets' started by AlexMagd, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is so helpful, thank you!

    I tend not to really eat breakfast (never really have) which I think is part of the problem, and due to my work my lunches tend to be short so I have to grab and go.

    Today I should get to about 1600 eating:

    Breakfast: slice of toast and 150ml milk (approx 300 cal)
    Lunch: Boots sandwich, apple (approx 500)
    Dinner: chicken breast, homemade pesto sauce, green beans, peppers, 50g pasta and garlic bread (approx 800 cal)
    Snacks: multivitamin, cup of coffee with 50ml milk (approx 25 cal)

    And that's going for the "regular" kind of NHS diet. Were I doing LCHF probably be having less for lunch since most of that calorie content is bread. Pre-diagnosis so many of my calories were from unhealthy stuff like crisps and biscuits that removing them has left a massive hole in my diet!

    I guess if you're drinking a lot of tea and coffee with milk and/or double cream in it's easier to get up to the 2000s?

    Would you mind sharing with me how your spreadsheet breaks down into meals? 125g cheese a day seems like loads but I guess if it's split up over multiple meals it might not.
     
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    That sounds like you are following the "Eatwell Plate" which for a lot of people causes more problems than it solves when applied to Type 2 diabetics. Bread isn't good for you it has loads of carbs causes insulin responses and will drive up your blood sugar. Its the same wth pasta and garlic bread. I just record things as I weigh and eat them. 125g of cheese is about an old cigarette pack size portion. That's usually my dessert.
     
  3. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm doing it to demonstrate to my GP that it doesn't work, and also because my attempt at following LCHF led to me not eating enough to the point where I was basically on Newcastle Diet levels without meaning to. Very aware of the pitfalls of Eatwell (and am seeing the consequent results on my meter - 11mmol/l for the first time in over a month right now) - but I don't know how else to get a referral to a dietician who will help me put together a structured LCHF plan that works for me.
     
  4. daisyduck

    daisyduck Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    From reading on these forums about peoples experiences with dieticians, I think you will be very lucky to get one who will recommend or help you with LCHF. They seem very stuck on the Eatwell regime, which lots of us have discovered just does not work for us.
    You have said yourself that you are seeing high readings again. There is no reason for you to be eating so little, there are lots of great recipes and foods you can include and still stay low carb
     
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  5. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    I think you will be lucky to find an NHS dietician that can help you. There may be an odd few, but not many. I am at a loss to understand why you aren't eating enough calories on a LCHF diet. I don't have any problems calorie wise, I'm never hungry, my weight is stable at a nice normal level, I eat normal protein.... normal for me .... I don't restrict it at all. I just eat what I want and at amounts I have always eaten. I can do that because my kidneys are in good shape. I eat all dairy. My carbs are rarely more than 30g a day, often less, sometimes more. Exactly what were you eating on LCHF?
     
  6. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know how people do it! I'm eating about as much as I can stomach and still missing my target unless I load up on nuts. Most keto recipes I've seen even for dinner top out at around 500 cal (e.g.: https://www.ruled.me/instant-pot-smothered-pork-chops/). To hit maintenance (I'm not trying to, but just for argument's sake) I need to put away about 2200 calories. I tend not to be that hungry in the morning or at lunch so scoffing down the required amount seems like a real challenge. Would love to know what you do on an average day? One of the hardest things with radical dietary change is understanding how to make those changes on a daily basis!
     
  7. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to know what you eat daily, if you'd be kind enough to share?

    As mentioned above possibly a problem for me is that I don't really do breakfast, other than a quick coffee at work. I'm usually running out of the door in the morning, and get back quite late at night (stressful job). That only leaves me with a couple of meals to get in the required amount of food and I do find it very difficult to eat so much in a single sitting.

    Most of my carbs come from sandwich thins, which I seem to be able to tolerate, so I'd have one of them with some cooked meat for lunch. Maybe with some nuts, but unlikely to be more than about 400 calories total. I find that's all I have room for during the day

    Then in the evening about 200-250g meat with vegetables, cooked in butter and olive oil. Rarely get above 1,200 with that approach. I try and slap an egg or two into every meal too.
     
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  8. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I used to the eat by the well plate and ate low-fat foods for years. I just kept piling on the weight. I used to eat brown rice, couscous, quinoa, seeded brown bread. everything healthy or so I thought. Now I am eating low carb and have lost weight and my BG levels are down.
     
  9. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Today:
    Breakfast. Decaf coffee with plenty of double cream
    Lunch. 2 boiled eggs mashed with lots of mayo, generous sprinkling of flaxseed, one big pickled onion, 6 cherry toms, half a toasted Lidl roll with lots of butter.
    Tea will be fried lambs liver and 2 rashers grilled back bacon, 2 small new potatoes with butter, peas, plenty of mushrooms fried in butter. Glass of red wine.

    A few mugs of tea throughout the day with skimmed milk (I don't like creamy tea) Plenty of water.
     
  10. SockFiddler

    SockFiddler Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's very confusing to give advice about increasing LCHF calories when you then give an Eatwell-style example of what you eat. We still don't really have any sort of an idea what a typical day of food looks like for you, including how it's prepared.

    You say you eat 250g meat a day - how is it cooked? Increasing your meat intake and changing how it's cooked will get you mad amounts of calories. Obviously, cooking a cutlet in a George Foreman is going to ultimately yield far less calories than roasting the same meat in an pan of animal fat (with some bacon and sprouts, I recommend).

    Adding dressings with mayo, creme fraiche or cream will also hugely increase your calorie total, as will adding some grated cheese or cooking stuff in oil.

    You say you don't eat breakfast, but drinking a pint of milk while on your way to work, or at work, will instantly add about 300 calories to your day, as would munching on a Babybel and a couple of Peperami. It's not sitting down at the table with a cup of tea and the paper type of breakfast, but it's a quick, easy hit of calories (fat and protein) that you can eat in about 2 minutes.

    But all of this is moot if you're following the Eatwell Plate. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face, and the NHS will thank you for proving their point for them: you're not going to get a nutritionist referral if you're already following nutritionist advice. Instead, use some common sense and add some easy-to-find calories to your LC meals to increase your calorie intake and manage your diabetes safely.
     
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  11. SockFiddler

    SockFiddler Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    *Apologies. Reading my last post back, I didn't mean to sound blunt. My point was that it's not healthy to go to such lengths to try to teach the NHS a lesson it's long-since already learned. You have nothing to gain except, as you've already noted, ****** blood glucose control.

    When I say "use some common sense", I mean do what we all do to increase our calorie intake - and make food more fun and interesting. Give up on trying to teach the NHS anything and get on with enjoying what you eat: food isn't a job or a function, but an adventure - start exploring!

    That's all :)
     
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  12. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Why are you worried about ketones? They are the result of breaking down fat, and if your blood glucose is low there is no need to lower or stop ketosis - it is not the danger signal it would be for a type 1 without enough insulin
     
  13. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @SockFiddler, I appreciate your advice and sorry if I've not been clear; not trying to be evasive! It's not as much about 'teaching the NHS a lesson' as trying to get some professional help for making such a big dietary change, as well as trying to get them to ease off on pressuring me to follow their diet. I badly want food to be an adventure - but I am very worried I'm not providing my body with what it needs, specifically around protein. I was at the GP's earlier this week and was told flat out that I was not eating enough, and they were right; I'm 6'1 and 17stone - this time in July I was 19st 5lb. Probably averaging 800-900 calories a day since then - not feeling hungry but clearly not getting enough protein either.

    And of course the only advice they could offer was 'eat carbs to get your calories up'. I'm a young guy with quite a hectic work schedule and I only get a few hours a day to do food prep and cook and I'm finding the whole adjustment quite overwhelming. What I've always been able to get from the NHS in the past is clear guidance on what to do (I am great at following rules and plans!) - the LCHF stuff is a lot more freeform and that's proving difficult for me. Throw in the newly-diagnosed grieving process and it's not a great concoction.

    But I really want to stress I'm only following the Eatwell plate for a few days/a week. I know it's not the long term solution. But until I know how to do LCHF safely I honestly don't know what else to do.

    As I mentioned above when I was doing LCHF I was cooking my meat with olive oil or butter. Frying pan pretty much. It's hard to paint a 'typical' day given I've only been trying this for about a month, but probably be looking at:

    B: coffee with milk
    L: sandwich thin / lowcarb wrap with some cooked meat, spinach, peppers etc, usually with a dollop of Nando's marinade (which is lovely and low carb)
    D: meat with veg - e.g. chicken breast with 50-100g peppers/spinach/green beans in a homemade sauce e.g. blended tomatoes with cheese/double cream and herbs.

    I'll freely admit I'm finding it difficult to get out of the 'smaller portions' mindset. For most of my life half a chicken breast was an appropriate amount of protein for a meal - quite possible it's my problem that I'm not eating *enough* of this stuff, especially protein
     
    #33 AlexMagd, Sep 21, 2017 at 5:30 PM
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  14. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My ketone levels according to ketostix were over 10mmol/l (++++ on the test sticks) rather than the 2-5mmol/l you expect in healthy ketosis. Although ketone issues are supremely rare with Type 2, it can happen (so I understand). I also started to develop extreme thirst and urination etc - not the keto flu as I'd been in ketosis for weeks - and I will happily admit I panicked about euglycemic ketoacidosis! I've been eating more and am now in a healthier range for ketones.
     
  15. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    (BTW thank you everyone for replying; in lieu of the NHS it's nice to get some guidance and practical advice from people who know what it's like to have Type2!)
     
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  16. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    @AlexMagd Please tell me why you are concerned about protein? Eat what you want of it. If your kidneys are in good shape there is no harm. People will tell you any excess is converted eventually to glucose and stored in the liver. This is true, but for most Type 2s any blood sugar rise from this is only slight. I am a 69 year old female who does no strenuous exercise and I eat as much as I have always eaten, which is a lot more than the RDA. It does not noticeably affect my BS and my kidney functions are excellent. The recommended daily allowances are the minimum, not the maximum. I'm a great believer in protein. It is needed by every cell in our body for building, repairing, healing. Too little is far worse than too much (if your kidneys are in good shape, as I mentioned above)

    This explains some of the science.
    http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
     
  17. AlexMagd

    AlexMagd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm not getting anywhere close to my minimum protein requirement. Not worried at all about eating too much
     
  18. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Why not? Boiled eggs and cheese in the morning - easy to prepare the night before and carry with you. Packed lunch with meats, cheese, chicken, eggs, tinned salmon/tuna and some mayo. Easy to throw in a box and take with you. All you need is a spoon and fork and 5 minutes to eat it or graze on it. Nuts can easily be stashed in your pocket. It can be done.
     
  19. SockFiddler

    SockFiddler Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Carbs are just one of three macro nutrients, the other 2 being protein and fat. If you're restricting calorie intake from carbs - and you're not following a weight loss plan - you need to increase your protein and fat intake to make up the calories.

    From what you've described, that's not something you've done. You've stripped out the carbs and then not replaced them with anything. It's no wonder you're losing weight. Ignore everything you've ever been told about portion sizes and healthy eating. Eat as much meat as you want, slather it in mayo, oil, butter, who cares what. Once you break out of your self-imposed portion restrictions, you'll be astonished at how easy it is to eat 3k+ calories / day.

    I'm still a bit confused about why this isn't the obvious solution over giving up low carb and adopting the Eatwell Plate? (and I can think of nothing worse than on-off alternating between Eatwell and LCHF a few days at a time... and you're worrying about Ketones on top of this?!)

    For example, a 3-egg omlette (220 cals) with bacon lardons (400 cals) and a bit of grated mature cheese (420 cals) cooked with olive oil and butter (150 cals) and you've got a simple, fast, cheap meal that clocks in at 1190 cals - for just one meal. In the example you gave, you can have a bit of cheese and ham with your coffee, use mayo in your wrap and add a boiled egg, tuna mayo, whatever in there, and for dinner you could stuff your chicken breast with pesto and wrap it in bacon.

    You've made this far too complicated. Forget ketones and portion sizes. Eat food.
     
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  20. Lynnzhealth

    Lynnzhealth Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    When I was first diagnosed with T2 my Diabetic Educator told me NOT to give up carbs, just eat them in moderation. I tried that and found if I ate even a slice of whole wheat bread that my sugar jumped high and I was prescibed Metformin. So, I researched and found the Keto plan and have been following that since early June. I used to eat lots of bread, scones, junk food, sweets as in baked goods as we call them over here in Canada and very few veggies. Very bad eating habits. I have to say if I didn't have the great low-carb Keto recipes I could not stick to this plan, diabetes or not. Otherwise, my blood is usually in the normal range, between 4 and 8. I no longer take Metformin. I am working towards reversing my diabetes. I have had a couple of spikes and can't figure out why. We will see at my blood tests next week.
     
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    #40 Lynnzhealth, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:36 PM
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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