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Low-Carb Health Risks

Why did the man have to use mice?.
Was he testing a new drug?, were humans at risk?.

He is testing the effect of a diet that millions of people across the globe use every day!!. Surely most of these people have associated medical records....


Go ask the people!!!

It's not rocket science!!....

Steve.
 
interesting.

A recent study also showed low carbing has an adverse effect on bowel health - the ref is in work so later in the week will look it up but it was published in the Journal of Nutrition. I find low carb /atkins diets are rather low in fibre - I also found this from the analysis on here!!!

I will sit back and wait for the flak!
 
ally5555 said:
interesting.

A recent study also showed low carbing has an adverse effect on bowel health - the ref is in work so later in the week will look it up but it was published in the Journal of Nutrition. I find low carb /atkins diets are rather low in fibre - I also found this from the analysis on here!!!

I will sit back and wait for the flak!
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should read the article by Dr Lutz GASTRO-INTESTINAL TRACT he has been advising LC for his patients for years.

http://www.scdiet.org/7archives/lutz/lutz7.html

Graham
 
Hi Graham - I have tried that link and avg is telling me it is a site i shouldnt go to it as it is reported as an attack site !

I think , and this is a personal opinion based on seeing alot of low carb clients over the years - at least 90% complain of constipation and that in itself is a health risk. I think the study I mentioned also looked at the probiotic effect of low carbing and it reduces bacteria colonies- that isnt good anyway.

Any diet that excludes food groups will bring with it problems. Sit back again!
 
ally5555 said:
Any diet that excludes food groups will bring with it problems.
Click to expand...

This statement is too broad to be meaningful.

Many conditions call for the elimination of certain food groups resulting in a positive outcome, hence I dont understand the point that this comment seeks to achieve?..

Many of the "Balanced diet only" fraternity consistently ignore the ill effects of certain food groups on specific conditions and individuals. By inference, NHS state time and time again that the maintenance of a "healthy" diet via the excessive consumption of carbohydrates contains "benefits" that outweigh the consequences to diabetics of persistant high blood glucose.

Constipation can be overcome with safe supplements. Besides, give me constipation over amputations or heart attacks any day of the week!.

Steve.
 
blue - any diet that excludes a major food group will undoubtedly mean some nutrinets are missing. My analysis of some of the low carbers diets , albeit a snapshort showed major defieciencies - in fact quite a few were eating little fat and protein too. Many of the menus psoted on here ,on various parts of the forum have been very poor and I have had to stop myself from posting - yes I am a Dietitian!

In practice , as I have said repeatedly low carbers do need supplements - I am actually thinking of doing some resarch myself for my masters .

What do you use as a fibre source - just out of interest?
 
ally - if I ever post a list of what I eat, and you wish to comment - please do so.

I would be very grateful for any expert advice.
 
Ramola - I would have to pm as I am not allowed to comment on the low carb forum - by the way I take a moderate approach with my patients and am getting HBas in the 5s too!
Dietitians are not llowed to give specific advice to clients without the medical history so i will only post general things any way.
 
Bluenosesol said:
Why did the man have to use mice?.
Was he testing a new drug?, were humans at risk?.

He is testing the effect of a diet that millions of people across the globe use every day!!. Surely most of these people have associated medical records....


Go ask the people!!!

It's not rocket science!!....

Steve.
Click to expand...

Mice are used for a number of reasons, remarkable genetic similarity to humans, combined with great convenience ie they are small and inexpensive to maintain. Their short life span and rapid reproductive rate make it possible to study disease processes in many individuals throughout their life cycle and they can also be manipulated in ways that would be considered unethical to do with humans.

Backing up many previous replies as to why the author was not explicit in his conclusions, science is not black and white, these are his interpretations of the results. Although genetically similar mice are different to humans, as I am to my sister, mum, brother and everyone else. So what is fine for me may cause damage to the next person etc, etc. Hence it would be wrong to say that a Low-Carb diet is BAD for everyone and just as bad to say it's GOOD for everyone.

All this research shows is that the usual tests of LDL and HDL levels are potentially only part of the story and that more research is required. I'll finish my small rant with the quote from Ellen Mason, from the British Heart Foundation, (from the BBC website) who "said it was difficult to apply the findings to humans." But she added: "Low-carb, high-protein diets are not considered as healthy as eating a balanced diet, which is good for health because we get the different nutrients our body needs by eating from the different food groups every day."
 
Ally,

I get my fibre mainly from veg, limited fruit intake, nuts and 7g per day of Ispaghula husk from Fybogel Orange. Once I reach control I will increase my CHO's (very moderately) until I achieve maintenance.

Haptagud,

I understand the application (to a degree) and dedication (for sure)of those scientists who use mice for their research, but I still do not understand why one would chose an albeit closely related species with all of it's associated assumptions and presumptions, when we are talking simply of diets and its effects. I for one would be only too happy for a bona fide research body to use me as a case for determining the effects of lo-carb dieting ...Why???

Because I EAT a lo-carb diet and measuring the effects is harmless to me, I also provide a more intelligent subject communication than mice (some may disagree :wink: )..

I suppose that there are those that will not be happy until they observe my Epitaph ...

"This poor diabetic died young - However whilst alive, he enjoyed a healthy balanced diet"

Steve.
 
I am still debating on my research , altho I may do some collaboration with a local uni who are doing alot of diabetes research.

I did have a hunch it may be fybogel - wholegrains do have some uses lol!

Some of the low carbers on here were eating as low as 5-8 g of fibre /day - the rec is 25g by the way.

I havent looked in detail at that mice paper but I am guessing they must have killed them for research purposes - I dont think they could do that with humans!

I have found that taking the middle ground from diagnosis works for my patients - so it may be possible to use them as a control group. I am still thinking about this at the mo - dont have to put any thing to paper until next year !
 
I understand the application (to a degree) and dedication (for sure)of those scientists who use mice for their research, but I still do not understand why one would chose an albeit closely related species with all of it's associated assumptions and presumptions, when we are talking simply of diets and its effects. I for one would be only too happy for a bona fide research body to use me as a case for determining the effects of lo-carb dieting ...Why???
Click to expand...

Because there's only one of you, unless you have a whole litter of identical siblings, with identical diet and life histories. :wink:

The mice were gentically identical and put on the diet from weaning
Being caged you can check what they are eating (no cheating) and being animals with relatively short lives things work quite a lot faster than in humans. All in all much easier for preliminary research. Moreoveor these came from a strain created specifcally for research into CVD. This strain has been used for over 600 published studies so I assume that there is some agreement that they are a reasonable model.('normal' mice don't get artherosclerosis)
see http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/24/6/1006

As for humans, they are far more dificult, very variable!. Dietary intervention trials (with the possible exception of short term 'ward' studies always have flaws somewhere and very poor compliance, thats one of the reasons the results are so hotly debated. Also how do you find matched groups with similar levels of plaque? though I suppose you could measure changes. I think that you could do it without killing the patient using scans but it would be expensive.
As to the ethics of putting a group on a long term diet that might (in the minds of the ethical committee) lead to increased risk of cvd.... well?
 
Hi Ally,

Hi Graham - I have tried that link and avg is telling me it is a site i shouldnt go to it as it is reported as an attack site !
Click to expand...

Funny that I also use AVG all it comes up with are cookies which it easily deals with, I get more warnings from another forum you are involved with. :wink:

I think , and this is a personal opinion based on seeing alot of low carb clients over the years - at least 90% complain of constipation and that in itself is a health risk. I think the study I mentioned also looked at the probiotic effect of low carbing and it reduces bacteria colonies- that isnt good anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't know were you get your figures from re constipation, seeing Dr Lutz has treated over 10.000 patients that's one hell of a lot of constipated people. The only 90% figure I have seen is his success rate regarding his Crohn's disease patients. As for probiotics it seems a low carb diet can be effectively used to combat IBS among other gastrointestinal problems,as Dr Lutz and others have shown.
http://www.cghjournal.org/article/S1542-3565(09)00198-0/abstract

Any diet that excludes food groups will bring with it problems. Sit back again!
Click to expand...

A low carb diet restricts carbs does not exclude them.


I think the following link should be a safe option for you to check out Dr Lutz, Chapter V11 will explain more.


http://www.123people.com/ext/frm?ti=per ... wrt_id=110

Graham xx
 
Graham - I dont go on any other forums .

This is anecdotal data of my own - remember I see many people over the course of a month!

It is interesting that low carbing generally seems to be dying out. Who knows what will come along next but low GI is still popular but really that is what we have been doing for years.
 
Wel sue as I see a lot of people every week and take a diet history - it is what clients tell me and as I gave a large network of dietetic friends who report the same. Most people say - oh I tried it for a while, lost weight but got bored with it. Sustaining a low carb diet is a problem - people on here who can that is fine but it is what I find in practice!

Sales of the Atkins books have died too - low Gi is the one at the mo.
 
I'm very surprised that people are so fickle Ally? From the alluded benefits I would have thought most would stay with what obviously seems to work well for them? Interesting.
 
combination of both Sue to be honest - I am not trying to be negative but it is just a fact . There is no actual data but I keep very crude records for my own interest .
 
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