Low carb or traditional low cal?

Hello. It's certainly confusing when you're torn between such fundamental "truths". We all have to decide what path to take. I decided that the argument for low-carb eating as explained on this forum by diabetics who have made it work was more convincing than the "eatwell plate" theory put forward by people who mainly haven't got diabetes and many of whom have a vested interest in persuading us to eat carbs. I eat a lot of fat and no doubt a lot of calories (which I have never counted) and as few carbs as I can manage and I feel pretty good. I have no weight problem but others here can advise if you do need to lose some.

I did low fat, low calorie, and culminated in the 800 calorie Newcastle diet, I now eat normally, (albeit a lot healthier), so I would suggest googling the Newcastle diet if reversal is your ultimate aim.

Although I am only recently diagnosed with diabetes I have been eating low carb for decades, with gaps when I was persuaded to 'eat healthy'. When not on a low carb diet I become utterly miserable, put on weight at a great rate, have no energy, feel despondent, get nothing done, the washing and washing pile up and I hardly go anywhere other than the shops. Eating low carb and I get out the bicycle, the house is clean and fairly tidy, I make things, go places and tend to sing a lot.

Resurgam said:

Although I am only recently diagnosed with diabetes I have been eating low carb for decades, with gaps when I was persuaded to 'eat healthy'. When not on a low carb diet I become utterly miserable, put on weight at a great rate, have no energy, feel despondent, get nothing done, the washing and washing pile up and I hardly go anywhere other than the shops. Eating low carb and I get out the bicycle, the house is clean and fairly tidy, I make things, go places and tend to sing a lot.

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It certainly shows how different we are on this forum.

You ate low carb for years, and still became diabetic even on a low carb diet.
I certainly didn't eat healthily, but turned it around on a low calorie, low fat diet, and now eat healthy carbs.

Weird thing type 2!

douglas99 said:

It certainly shows how different we are on this forum.

You ate low carb for years, and still became diabetic even on a low carb diet.
I certainly didn't eat healthily, but turned it around on a low calorie, low fat diet, and now eat healthy carbs.

Weird thing type 2!

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I suspect I was prediabetic or even diabetic for a long time, but I was tested for cholesterol, told that my life depended on eating the cholesterol reducing diet I was given, cutting out all red meat etc. In under two years my waist became an equator and I lost hair, became depressed - I was even contemplating having a stair lift due to the pain in my joints. I really should not have let myself be persuaded so easily. Now I am eating low carb my BG is normalising and I can almost run up the stairs.

Resurgam said:

I suspect I was prediabetic or even diabetic for a long time, but I was tested for cholesterol, told that my life depended on eating the cholesterol reducing diet I was given, cutting out all red meat etc. In under two years my waist became an equator and I lost hair, became depressed - I was even contemplating having a stair lift due to the pain in my joints. I really should not have let myself be persuaded so easily. Now I am eating low carb my BG is normalising and I can almost run up the stairs.

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Sorry, must have misunderstood when you said you low carbed for decades.
I just overate for decades!
But to be fair, I enjoyed those decades!

douglas99 said:

Sorry, must have misunderstood when you said you low carbed for decades.
I just overate for decades!
But to be fair, I enjoyed those decades!

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I did low carb for a long time, I started back in the 1970s, but there was so much bad press about it - I should have just kept quiet, but I was so proud of myself for losing weight and coping with work, children and life in general - I should have just kept quiet.

Why not just combine them. I am a LCHF advocate who is working towards portion reduction (lower calorie, as I eat 2 big meals and fell too full), and also will be combining Vegan days. If the Newcastle diet had been known to me as an option, I would have done this; I would have worked out for 3 hours a day, anything. The bottom line is to get the visceral fat out and reduce the insulin resistance. Build up your mental strength as whichever way, discipline will be required, luck will not be required if you can maintain focus.

I think it all depends on how YOUR body responds to the various ways of eating.

Some people flourish on low fat, low calorie, lose the weight, feel all Born Again, and skip into the sunset.
Others flourish on Low Carb, with or without High Fat, lose weight, feel all Born Again, and skip off into the sunset.

The decider as to which works for each of us seems to depend on things like age, sex, hormones, medical history, weight and weight loss history, whether we experience carb cravings, joint and autoimmune issues, how our cholesterol reacts (if we consider that important ) and a whole host of other things.

People usually speak from personal experience, and I would agree with you that the longer that experience is, the more valuable it is to your question.

I am 49, developed reactive hypoglycaemia as a child, polycystic ovary syndrome and a prolactinoma (pituitry gland tumour) in my teens. Eating carbs has always made me feel ill, while simultaneously stimulating a craving for more of the pesky b*gg*rs. Identifying and dealing with my carb reactions has been the work of decades, not just a few years. I started going low carb 33 years ago, with a number of detours and sidetracks Between then and now. Those detours tended to involve weight gain while strict low carbing results in weight loss, although that has become more difficult with age, other health issues and imminent? on-going? menopause.

It would be lovely to eat carbs (i find them enjoyable), but the lower carb I go, the better I feel.
For me, low carbing gives me good sleep, more energy, relief from cravings, clarity of mind, access to great indulgent food choices, varying amounts of weight loss, no weight regain (in the past 5 years the weight direction has always been slowly downward, never up).

If i wanted to eat carbs i would need medication to control my blood glucose, and my health would deteriorate, as it has always deteriorated when I have eaten carbs. Each step down in my progression from 'normal' bg, to pre-diabetic, to type 2, has coincided with periods of carb eating.

However, your situation will be different from mine, so you have to weigh your own Pros and Cons.

If we understand that we what to achieve and maintain nutritional ketosis,

Then basically the carbs lite fats friendly approach makes it easier to go into low cal calorie restricted diet.

kokhongw said:

If we understand that we what to achieve and maintain nutritional ketosis,

Then basically the carbs lite fats friendly approach makes it easier to go into low cal calorie restricted diet.

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We don't want to.
Maybe that was your specific target?

Reversing diabetes was far more preferable for me.

douglas99 said:

We don't want to.
Maybe that was your specific target?

Reversing diabetes was far more preferable for me.

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Unfortunately very very few have been able to fully reverse diabetes, restore and maintain their 1st phase insulin response.

And you will unlikely approach that without first achieving and maintaining a state of ketosis...

mcdougall86 said:

I am so overwhelmed by the difference in opinion between low carbers and low cal followers. Do both methods work to help control or reverse type 2? I'm really looking to hear from people who have been able to be drug free with normal blood sugars for several years, rather than people who have seen shorter term results. I've been eating low carb since I was diagnosed with steroid induced diabetes two months ago, but I do worry a little about the long term effects of eating more protein and fat. I'm really hoping that I can reverse the damage done by the steroids so that I'm not diabetic when I stop taking them, but I'm just a bit overwhelmed by the divide in how to do that!

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I'm not diabetic so can't comment from that pov, but I'm in the danger zone and needed to lose 100lb to reduce the likelihood of developing T2. I'm 64 and have been on a high carb, low fat diet of one sort or another for most of the last 50 years. They worked but only in the short term, until I was too hungry and made bad food choices again.

Like @Resurgam I was talked out of Atkins in the early '70's, to my great regret. Now I'm low carbing again, have lost 55lb since May and have never felt better. I stick with under 20g of carbs a day and eat plenty of filling, satisfying fats. When I bother to count, I rarely reach 1200 calories a day because I just don't want more than a coffee with double cream for brekkie and a lovely low carb dinner. So, I guess that's a combination of low calorie and low carb.

kittypoker said:

I'm not diabetic so can't comment from that pov, but I'm in the danger zone and needed to lose 100lb to reduce the likelihood of developing T2. I'm 64 and have been on a high carb, low fat diet of one sort or another for most of the last 50 years. They worked but only in the short term, until I was too hungry and made bad food choices again.

Like @Resurgam I was talked out of Atkins in the early '70's, to my great regret. Now I'm low carbing again, have lost 55lb since May and have never felt better. I stick with under 20g of carbs a day and eat plenty of filling, satisfying fats. When I bother to count, I rarely reach 1200 calories a day because I just don't want more than a coffee with double cream for brekkie and a lovely low carb dinner. So, I guess that's a combination of low calorie and low carb.

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As you say it seems to be calories restriction, regardless of how its achieved, but interestingly, the Newcastle diet, which is the only documented study of diabetes remission, used a high carb diet shake, and that success has been repeated by members on here, myself included, (again, using the high carb shake though).

So I'm still of the opinion that if it worked for them, I wouldn't change it.