• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Low carb

Big Pharma has no interest in funding low carb diet studies. Doctors and HCPs other than dieticians learn practically nothing in medical school about diet. So they fall back on the eatwell plate, of which there is a picture on their wall. They have no studies of low carb diets to refer to. But their references DO tell them how much metformin to prescribe for a given BG level.
 
Tannith said:
Big Pharma has no interest in funding low carb diet studies. Doctors and HCPs other than dieticians learn practically nothing in medical school about diet. So they fall back on the eatwell plate, of which there is a picture on their wall. They have no studies of low carb diets to refer to. But their references DO tell them how much metformin to prescribe for a given BG level.
Click to expand...

Big Pharma don't tie people to chairs n feed em biscuits
 
slikwipman said:
Is it possible to do a manual job on only 800 calories a day?
Click to expand...

Laying railway track is probably out of the question, but I can manage a game of golf which breaks down to a 5 mile walk interspersed with hitting a ball 100 times. Then doing the shopping and then doing garden stuff.

It would be interesting to look at the occupations of those who took part in the original research.
 
slikwipman said:
Big Pharma don't tie people to chairs n feed em biscuits
Click to expand...
True, but big pharma tells type 2's that we can carry on eating loads of carbs, take the pills, and surrender to this progressive disease we are helpless to control. Which we know, from the thousands of varying experiences on here, is not true.
 
serenity648 said:
True, but big pharma tells type 2's that we can carry on eating loads of carbs, take the pills, and surrender to this progressive disease we are helpless to control. Which we know, from the thousands of varying experiences on here, is not true.
Click to expand...

Blaming Capitalism for people not looking after their own health is a bit of a stretch
 
slikwipman said:
Blaming Capitalism for people not looking after their own health is a bit of a stretch
Click to expand...
If people go to their doctors, and get given a type of advice to follow to take care of their health, and they follow it, it is not their fault if they then get more ill. It is the fault of those in the medical profession giving the wrong advice.

I find you rather difficult to reason with, and lacking in compassion so am bowing out of this.
 
slikwipman said:
Blaming Capitalism for people not looking after their own health is a bit of a stretch
Click to expand...
It's not blaming capitalism - just the actions of some companies and the diet advice people get which makes them worse. You can't blame people for following the advice they are given.
 
slikwipman said:
After reading posts about low carb diets I am confused why so many people on this forum find it helpful in managing their diabetes but trained healthcare professionals are against it. Could someone please help me understand why the healthcare professionals don't recommend it when I read on here how the people on a low carb diet find it helpful.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Health Professionals are TRAINED to follow the system, and that is often marketing and politics related. Food Industry markets products, many aimed at health areas issues, if professionals docs and health carers steer patients away from this to EAT LESS of say products they are promoting purchasing, BIG BUSINESS, to eat low carb for example, this is one of the main reasons this can take place.

Secondly, many are not updated in new way of eating habits, techniques, and follow old style of recommendations, which frankly is not acceptable, and those professionals who are still following this method, should not be in a position to recommend until they are 100% uptdate with latest changes that show results.

I suggest you take charge of your own body, the best anyone can do at the end of the day, after all WE only know our bodies better than any doctor or health professional. Look at www.dietdoctor.com. They eloquently explain the benefits of low carb and especially keto eating plans, these are not diet fads, not diets,simply eating REAL FOOD, smaller portions,and different varied foods, low carb with different degrees of low carbs which is fantastic, as there is choice for everyone. Everyone knows what food they can eat, hunger, and lifestyle, and can choose adopt to the keto low carb eating plan as they prefer. How easy and pragmatic is that.

Doctors often say, first diagnosis, take metformin prior to saying change lifestyle. This has myself miffed and could not understand, but seems, this is the easy way for them. They take the view, they are tired of recommending change of lifestyle, people dont do it well 95%, so instead, they say take medication, which is not the way around this. What a Doctor should do
is take responsibility and perhaps threaten a client in a good way, for example, if you do not try to change lifestyle eat low carb exercise more in order, to help yourself, I will have no option but to place you on insulin for example, this is one method to frighten off a patient, to see common sense, to change their lifestyle, if that patient ignores this change of lifestyle advice, then unfortunately, last resort, that person may have to be prescribed medications.

People should listen to what the professionals say, but that does not mean one has to believe it is correct, and more importantly, follow what they say.

I can assure you for my body, low carb and keto low carb is working wonderfully. Wonderful foods, new way of cooking, recipes delicious and by choice, whether I am pre diabetes or not, frankly, I will continue this style of eating plan for the rest of my life its so great, I feel great and surfing better at the ripe young age of 68 better than 1 year ago, more energized, lost 18 kilos in weight, and my pre diabetes figures are all low normal, normal normal and reversed my A1C 23% in 4 months.

How, ignoring what the so called professionals who may not be updated with their information within their professional, and followed my own gut feelings.....

Hope this helps.

Mallorca
 
bulkbiker said:
A lot of "Trained Healthcare Professionals" were taught once often ages ago and don't keep up with more recent studies. Thus they regurgitate what they were told when they were at Medical School possibly up to 40 years ago. There are some (and thankfully a slowly increasing number) who are quite happy to support a low carb way of eating but at the moment they have to find a way to get this past NICE guidelines (which are again old science). So imagine you are a HCP and are expected to work within NICE guidelines but know they are wrong.. What do you do? Ignore the guidelines and risk the consequences or buckle under and carry on with your job maybe sending patients here to have a read?
The other thing I always say is that we have our diabetes not our HCP's so we need to learn more about it to help ourselves. Thankfully this forum is full of people who are constantly learning and reading new science to help us all.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct! Well said, and how correct are you in your viewing, I take the same stand, they are trained to follow the system, whatever that is. We are in charge of our own bodies, one an listen to these so called professionals, but that does not mean they are correct or have advices followed, one should follow their own gut feelings, take a pragmatic approach, overall,
and do not be naive to the real life, that food means business, marketing promotion, if professionals are not guiding to eat lesser amounts or certains foods at all that the food industry promotes, to say eat more low carb, this means lesser business for the food industry, its all interconnected but many people dont see this! its both medically and politically involved at the end of the day as is Diabetes, people have to start waking up opening their eyes, diabetes is here to stay, because its a mass big business, of course insulin resistances exists but can be solutioned, if only the medical professionals start TO TREAT THE CAUSE and not the symptom high sugars.

Your views are fantastic and well said.

Mallorca
 
Medics are not diabetics themselves. They need results of surveys to give them the confidence to change from Metformin treatment to low carb treatment. And there are no surveys. Surveys cost money. who is going to fund a trial of low carb foods.? A drug manufacturer who will lose sales from it? A biscuit manufacturer?
 
pleinster said:
Generally, I have nothing but good things to say about the NHS here in Scotland. The care I received at every level when I had my transplant was superb. The ideal we all want is, in my view, only hampered by political agendas and by bad management and short term vision. I have no reason to doubt the good intentions of the medical staff BUT, @Mark_1, to say that "the NHS doesn't want to give out advice that will be ignored anyway, so eat a healthy diet is usually all the information given with no real expectations that it will be followed.." just isn't good enough. I wouldn't dream of stating the case for the NHS, but if it is "their" (management? senior staff? who?) policy to deliberately issue incorrect or totally inadequate advice because of "their" view of what "the public" might take on board or not, "they" are not providing the care they are empowered to provide (and by law is their obligation to provide) to those they serve. A "let them eat cake" mentality is both arrogant and judgemental and I for one expect those in power (government) to ensure that those in power (hospital management from budget control to care policy) do their utmost to train staff adequately and to ensure that the "clients" (us) are not dismissed en masse as idiots because of perceived common attitudes. I would add that training IS available (not all training courses are considered part of compulsory updating of skills) and that a number of the staff I have had the benefit of seeing ARE trained and DO know about low carbing AND favour it AND do advise it. What is perhaps a more accurate statement is that the NHS in this one area (though I am sure in others too) needs to ensure that it treats us as individuals based on our individual circumstances. The last thing we need to do is to lie down and accept that it's okay for doctors (or their managers) to assume we are all stupid. I would add that I don't even think that is the reason for the lack of proper advice - poor management and inadequate resources are likely the biggest factor alongside some complacency. I would stress again...I value the NHS greatly but let's not simply excuse some less than perfect areas because "they" know what's best for us..when in some cases "they" clearly don't. I do, however, take @slikwipman 's horribly amusing point and would add...some people really are stupid enough to be watching Deal Or No Deal with no feet and a big tin of biscuits!
Click to expand...

Re numbers A1C etc.

Did you know that 49 6.6% 7.9mmol is DIABETIC LEVEL LABEL IN ENGLAND.

IN NEW ZEALAND IT IS ONLY PRE DIABETES THEY TAKE A PRAGMATIC VIEWING WHICH IS SENSIBLE, DONT MIS LABEL SEE FOR 6 MONTHS GET REVIEW RATHER AFTER LIFE STYLE CHANGE,RATHER THAN MEDICATE AND PLACE ANXIETY AND STRESS ON A PERSON YOUR DIABETIC, WHEN THERE IS DOUBT THEY MAY BE ONLY PRE.

NEW ZEALAND CUT OFF FOR A1C IS 50MMOL/MOL WITH CLASSIC SYMPTOMS, IF NO SYMPTOMS TWO TESTS TAKEN, AND BOTH TO BE OVER 50MMOL/MOL I.E. 6.7%

PRE DIABETES IS UP TO OR EQUATING 49MMOL/MOL I.E. 6.6% NO MEDS GIVEN, LIFE STYLE CHANGE RECOMMENDED AND REVIEW IN 6-12 MONTHS DEPENDING ON MOVEMENTS DURING THIS PERIOD. HOW SENSIBLE IS THAT.

MALLORCA
 
pleinster said:
Hi. It is pretty basic really...three words - ignorance, arrogance and complacency. The fact that some (very good) medical professionals are completely up to speed with the benefits of a low carb high fat diet in relation to those seeking to get their blood sugar levels under control serves to demonstrate not that others are experts who disagree as a result of superior knowledge but that, sadly, they are doing the minimum and following guidelines that are outmoded or they are not updating their training (where NHS and council budgets can be a factor). I meet regularly with on of a team of four renal specialists since my transplant two years ago (which was NOT due to diabetes) and all of them are pleased with my diet as they can see the results..and they test my blood in all kinds of ways. I see a diabetes consultant too and he is extremely well informed...he tells me that the low carb approach is slowly starting to catch on and he personally thinks it is generally the best way to go for Type 2s at least, particularly if their BS is not ridiculously high, as part of a lifestyle change before trying meds. He is staggered by the sloppy approach of some others, particularly those who tell diabetics to eat plenty of carbs! It is nuts! Many who have been advising a "healthy diet" for so long are reluctant to now have to be seen to be changing their minds...some know very little about diet at all...others simply think they know best regardless. It is not good enough...but meantime, thankfully, we have access to the direct experience of diabetics who do very well indeed on a low carb diet (if they stick to it). One thing to partly explain a slight hesitancy to promote a low carb diet is that if it is adhered to strictly in conjunction with certain meds (such as Gliclazide) it can contribute to blood sugars dropping so low that hypos happen. There needs to be a greater drive from NHS management and in the design of training programmes..and while lack of financial resources is undoubtedly a factor, there is no real excuse for trained staff to issue advice that is completely wrong. I guess, you have to make your own mind up and keep your doctor/nurse informed. I found that keeping records of my meter readings and the food I was eating served me well in convincing any doubters, so I had the minimum of difficulty with medical staff. Also.. self testing meters...they also talk a lot of rubbish about how these are not required (ie. they cost money)...but meters are in my opinion the only way for us to identify the foods which have most impact on us as individuals and to take control and stay in control. Good luck.

ps. I tend to talk until someone hits me!
Click to expand...

Everyone is missing the crux of the problem. When will the professionals medicals, start to realize Diabetes is a dietary disease. Currently, the approach is wrong. All that has to be done is focus target on the CAUSE the insulin resistance and not the symptom, the high sugars!! everyone testing, 1,2,3,4,6, goodness knows how many times a day, checking fingers, when they are basing the results on ARBITRARY, cut off levels, which are at whim, random, and not 100% backed supported by medical evidence, even the so called experts committee admit, they are arbitrary chosen cut offs. Its appalling, that a medical can admit Low Carb is slowly starting to be accepted, this is out of order, it should be a case, LOW CARB IS THE FIRST RECOMMENDATION.

Regards meters, if one is not eating, bread, pasta, potatoes or rice, and eating generally low carb on top, there is no need to see what foods are giving impact, if your not putting carbs in your numbers should be good simple as that, and if your doing on top intermittent fasting, better still.

Wake up medical professionals, stop taking time to accept low carbs are essential, and the most important guidance, and start to focus target the REAL PROBLEM insulin resistance, the cause, not the sugars. For goodness sake giving insulin to a person who has an insulin resistance problem is crazy.

Mallorca
 
Doctors know if a person is diabetic as opposed to prediabetic that drugs like metformin WILL work, and the person can go on eating whatever they ate before diagnosis. They see no reason to try something new like low carbs which might or might not work. You and I might not want to take metformin, but not everyone has side effects. Also remember that doctors see patients that include all types. Many may not know how to use a computer -say to look up carb values. Many more may not be able to add them up.Some can't read, at least not easily enough to understand food labels. But they can all take the pills the doctor gives them.
 
pollensa said:
Everyone is missing the crux of the problem. When will the professionals medicals, start to realize Diabetes is a dietary disease. Currently, the approach is wrong. All that has to be done is focus target on the CAUSE the insulin resistance and not the symptom, the high sugars!! everyone testing, 1,2,3,4,6, goodness knows how many times a day, checking fingers, when they are basing the results on ARBITRARY, cut off levels, which are at whim, random, and not 100% backed supported by medical evidence, even the so called experts committee admit, they are arbitrary chosen cut offs. Its appalling, that a medical can admit Low Carb is slowly starting to be accepted, this is out of order, it should be a case, LOW CARB IS THE FIRST RECOMMENDATION.

Regards meters, if one is not eating, bread, pasta, potatoes or rice, and eating generally low carb on top, there is no need to see what foods are giving impact, if your not putting carbs in your numbers should be good simple as that, and if your doing on top intermittent fasting, better still.

Wake up medical professionals, stop taking time to accept low carbs are essential, and the most important guidance, and start to focus target the REAL PROBLEM insulin resistance, the cause, not the sugars. For goodness sake giving insulin to a person who has an insulin resistance problem is crazy.

Mallorca
Click to expand...

It's because of the number of adults in this country that act like children and can't be trusted to look after themselves
 
Back
Top