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Low Carbing - Carb Intake

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by Listlad, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Insulin resistance is probably the single largest factor. In the presence of elevated blood insulin concentration your body will be attempting to convert glucose into fat, not burn that which is already stored, thus making ketosis impossible. In a very insulin resistant individual their levels will be constantly elevated and they will need to consume a lot less glucose. Remember that really, ketosis is nothing unusual. It’s simply the body’s mechanism by which it burns stored fat. It’s just that insulin prevents it from ever doing so. I would think the majority of modern humans are so full of glucose most of the time that their body is only ever able to store fat and never effectively use it. A proper metabolic malfunction. There’s nothing wrong with fat, it is simply stored energy. The problem is that most people are never able to tap into it because they are furiously storing excess glucose 24/7.

    Also remember that insulin resistance is entirely normal. Everyone is somewhere on the spectrum. The resistance is required in all of us. Without it, our body would fill up with glucose very quickly. We have to become resistant so that we can allow the insulin to further facilitate the conversion of excess glucose into fat. The more glucose we ingest the more insulin needs to remain elevated in order to do its job, which requires increasing resistance so that it stays around for longer. Fat is the protection mechanism from diabetes, not the cause. Only when fat stores become full do we become diabetic. If everyone would just lay off the glucose we could all maintain metablic flexibitly and this conversation wouldn’t be taking place, never mind debating the numbers :)
     
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  2. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    The whole of the animal kingdom is different but it doesn’t stop us grouping those with similar features together. There is some room for looking for common denominators. In this case though the focus is on height and its impact on carb needs and responses.

    Or are we saying that there is no relationship whatsoever between height and carb impact?
     
    #22 Listlad, Mar 16, 2019 at 7:57 AM
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  3. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Does a bigger or taller person have more less or the same insulin resistance? Would an elephant have more less or the same insulin resistance than a mouse? :D

    I suppose you are going to say it depends on the elephant or the mouse. :D
     
    #23 Listlad, Mar 16, 2019 at 7:59 AM
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  4. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Insulin resistance can be pretty much directly correlated with glucose load. It doesn’t matter what mass you are. It only matters how much of that mass is already stuffed with glucose. The more glucose in the body, the more insulin resistance is required in order to ensure that all new glucose is safely converted into body fat and not allowed to linger indefinitely. Without this entirely natural increasing resistance mechanism, insulin would just keep shoving more glucose into the body’s cells where it would cause glucotoxicity. Instead, the resistance allows the excess to continually be stored away in adipocytes (fat cells). While this is happening, ketosis cannot take place. Additionally, some people don’t have many adipocytes, and they run out of safe storage very quickly. This is why not all insulin resistant diabetics are obese.

    In short, if your body isn’t overburdened with sugar (very insulin resistant) it will be able to effortlessly switch between glycolysis and ketosis, and the subject won’t need to adhere to strict carbohydrate restriction. A metabolically healthy person should be in mild ketosis every night while they sleep. The problem most modern humans have is that they are overstuffed with glucose and so insulin prevents this from ever happening effectively. This is also why obese people get hungry when they have several hundred thousand calories in storage waiting to be used as fuel - insulin is preventing them from accessing any of it. Hope I’m explaining it clearly.
     
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  5. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    Well, my personal view is that's unimportant. If the individual is interested in the impact of carbs on their body and/or health, then they should research themselves and their personal responses, rather than take someone else's generalise that might not do them any favours.

    Act, record, measure, review and where necessary, adjust. That's my approach, whichever has served me well, so far.
     
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  6. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Which is why BMI totally sucks.
     
  7. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    One of the reasons I asked the question is because of the speed that my blood sugar levels, blood pressure and weight dropped at. I was shocked by it. And then somebody said to me how come so quick when he/she was struggling under considerably less carb intake.

    @Tipetoo seems to have had great success on 100 carbs a day but he is a bit of a giant. Again I wondered if his height was a dominant or large factor.
     
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  8. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    So we should scrap any idea of the mouse and elephant comparison or any similar lines of thought? :D
     
  9. Spl@

    Spl@ Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I bounce in and out of keto all the time I believe. The metallic taste comes on when I switch.
    I eat minimal carbs. None of the usual villains. Any carbs I have come from veg/cream youghert etc that still have a little.
    Carbs affect me quite dramatically. Because of that I avoid them. The result is my weight plummeted 25kg in 3 months then stopped.
    Since Christmas, no diet change I have lost another 5.
    I feel my body is now in a sweet spot. Food in is relevant to my body's nutritional needs and quite honestly I feel fantastic.

    Ketosis I think comes and goes as my diet is not actually keto but I'm on the edge certainly at under 30g.
     
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  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Possibly because you have had "normal " blood glucose levels since 2015?
    Less hyperinsulinaemia perchance?
     
  11. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    41 is normal? Don’t forget the symptoms were still there, regardless of the statistic.
     
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Lower than "Pre-diabetes" so yes in the eyes of the NHS "normal"
     
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  13. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Okay. I tended to think it was harder to make the improvements the lower the blood glucose levels.
     
  14. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I think wrt height that you are grabbing at straws.
     
  15. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I recall you are quite a tall geezer?
     
  16. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Jean Claude Juncker asks the UK what it wants and the U.K. says what it doesn’t want. :D

    I was hoping to hear about a correlation between height (not so much fat), and required carb intake. Presumably the answer is that there isn’t one. If that is the case then so be it.

    Thanks for the responses.
     
  17. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    This is my lab test A1c list since diagnosis. I have done some home, interim tests too, but to be consistent only lab results are here:

    T2 since October 2013. No medication.

    HbA1c:
    October 13: 73 or 8.8% (How did that happen?)
    February 14: 37 or 5.5%
    May 14: 34 or 5.3%
    August 14: 32 or 5.1%
    November 14: 33 or 5.1%
    May 15: 31 or 5.0%
    October 15: 33 or 5.1%
    September 16: 31 or 5.0%
    November 17: 33 or 5.1%
    March 18: A "bonus", unexpected test due to other bloods - 30 or 4.9%. I joined the 4s club! I hadn't expected a reduction, having got used to toggling 33<>31<>33<>31 for the last 3 years, literally.
    March 19: 27 or 4.6% Another surprising reduction.

    Work in progress, but GP has taken me off the Diabetes Register.


    Of course, the lower the A1c goes, the less chance is of much being shaved off. For the record, had I continued to toggle 31<>33 ad infinitum, I'd be happy. I haven't been chasing the last two, surprise twitches downwards.
     
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  18. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    When I first joined DCUK I fell into comparing my fbg, bg and carb amounts to other members and would sometimes become quite frustrated until I realised that some members had already learned what they could and could not tolerate, that some were much further along in their progression in terms of improvement and that some had gotten over the initial shock/horror of diagnosis and had found the 'sweet spot' for them as individuals. I learned that comparing myself to others was a complete waste of time and energy which is why I no longer partake in what I call 'List threads' e.g What was your fbg...' or 'How many carbs...'. While I appreciate that these lists promote support and advice etc for me they sometimes left a feeling almost of resentment at times. As far as I am aware I do not have a clone therefore my stats are personal and relevant only to me.

    So, to get to the point, just because there may be a female member here who is exactly my height, weight and shoe size does not mean that our stats are going to be similar, they may be but it would be coincidence.
     
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  19. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    It’s quite an odd thing but my GP (who is a David Unwin “clone”) only in mid January said he was “ very concerned about my diabetes”.

    Interesting how we all view the figure of 41 against the national classification.

    I did have another reason to ask about carb intake and height / size but it would probably initiate a low carb bun fight so will steer away from that. :D
     
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    strange as only a couple of weeks later you were well into "normal" territory..
     
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