Mary C Vernon MD

Looks like it's down to me then?
Hmmmmm.....................OK

Great find Graham,

All the best,

fergus

Very good Graham. Sure I've seen this somewhere before though. I think it should have a wider audience so I am putting it in Diabetes Discussions.

Love your new signature BTW.

This is brilliant!!!
I am going to save it in my favourites!!!
Thanks Graham....

Steve.

Not for me I'm afraid, just another scaremongerer saying meds are bad while making money promoting the Atkins diet :roll:

Sid - this is not her opinion. She's provided scientific info, and test results that confirm what we all know to be true.

Carbs are bad. Fats are good.

Cutting out the carbs, and upping your fat intake drastically improves all of your numbers. Fact.
Cutting out the fat, and replacing it with carbs does the opposite.

I don't recall seeing a lot of actual, scientific information saying the opposite...

Patch said:

Sid - this is not her opinion. She's provided scientific info, and test results that confirm what we all know to be true.

Carbs are bad. Fats are good.

Cutting out the carbs, and upping your fat intake drastically improves all of your numbers. Fact.
Cutting out the fat, and replacing it with carbs does the opposite.

I don't recall seeing a lot of actual, scientific information saying the opposite...

Click to expand...

Patch.
Facts....what facts ?

I haven't seen ANY conclusive information that fats are good for you. Some fats are, saturated fats are generally thought of as being BAD for you. Yes, I know some people think ALL fats are good, their choice, not mine. There are lots of studies which allege that, there as many if not more that allege the opposite. When I was strictly low carbing I found that a high fat diet ruined my lipid results and so went back to my normal LOW FAT diet, together with reduced carbs. That put everything back in order. I don't doubt that people get good results with high fat, just don't tell me it's a fact NOT for everybody it isn't.

Fair enough, Sid.
If understanding insulin resistance, what insulin does, what raises blood sugar, how diet effects it, how to minimise medication, improve weight control and balance the metabolism isn't your cup of tea, good luck to you.

All the best,

fergus

Patch said:

Sid - this is not her opinion. She's provided scientific info, and test results that confirm what we all know to be true.

Carbs are bad. Fats are good.

Cutting out the carbs, and upping your fat intake drastically improves all of your numbers. Fact.
Cutting out the fat, and replacing it with carbs does the opposite.

I don't recall seeing a lot of actual, scientific information saying the opposite...

Click to expand...

I wont argue that most diabetics need to reduce their carb intake to some extent but we will have to agree to disagree when it comes to "Fats are good" as there is probably more research that disputes that statement than supports it. My point was that she is biased in my view by fact that she actively promotes the Atkins diet, in fact she makes money from it. I'm sure we are all aware that Dr Atkins died weighing something like 240lb's (about 17 stone) a year after suffering a heart problem. That doesnt really say much for his diet or am I misinformed?

fergus said:

Fair enough, Sid.
If understanding insulin resistance, what insulin does, what raises blood sugar, how diet effects it, how to minimise medication, improve weight control and balance the metabolism isn't your cup of tea, good luck to you.

All the best,

fergus

Click to expand...

Of course I am interested in all things diabetic Fergus, but as I have already said I have doubts about a low carb high fat diet, not saying I am right and you are wrong, just that I have doubts about any diet that promotes high fat.

And as M. C. Vernon has a best selling book promoting the Atkins diet she is hardly going to talk about the evidence against high fat is she?

We all read this stuff and make our own decisions and hope that we are right, perhaps we both are every day it seems we read about things being bad for us that last year were considered good....

Patch,
Whilst low carb/high fat works for you, it doesn't mean that it will work for everyone. It is not a blanket statement that this is true for all diabetics.

There are some who have digestive, heart and blood disorders and other health concerns to take into account. Are you convinced that they should be following your example? How about the people who have an aversion to fat? Your statement just covers fat. There are good and bad fats as Sid has pointed out. How about eating acceptable foods that you enjoy and not foods that someone else is convinced is the only way forward for management?

I don't low/carb high fat. I have good control of my diabetes and cholesterol. Can you honestly say that I am doing something wrong by not following your example?

"Many patients who consume high fat diets do not exhibit abnormal lipid profiles but still develop atherosclerosis. Lipid profiles do not hold all the answers......."This is a warning to those who say there isn't a problem".

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142001.htm

So if your cholesterol levels are good you can still be in line for atherosclerosis.

You may say that it is those pesky mice again and the impact on humans has not been proven but we have seen studies that involve mice and promote findings that are acceptable to followers of low carb/high fat diets on this forum. Even if this study did not involve diabetics it is still saying that the risk is there. Atherosclerosis has been found in heart attack victims whose cholesterol levels are good.

Everyone has to do something that works for them and not follow the herd. We don't all have to low carb/high fat to get good results and the sooner we all realize that then the better for all of us.
Advise people by all means but just because something works for you personally it does not mean that it is the only way forward for diabetic management for all.
How about moderation in all things and frequent testing and food diaries as a step towards reaching your goals?

Mary Vernon is promoting her book and is also the President of the Bariatric Society. Not really an independent voice is she?

Fat is good.

Patch said:

Fat is good.

Click to expand...

Maybe for you ,Patch, personally I do not like to spend too much time in the loo. I have better things to do with my time !

Me neither. 1 big one a day will do me nicely.

1 big one.....is that a Mars Bar Patch ........? :wink:

Graham.

It is as you say a very informative video which deserved a wider audience so I moved it to Diabetes Discussions. There is much there of interest to all Diabetic's, not just low carbers. I found things that I tended to agree with and other stuff which I didn't. Fact.

The people who have posted have just offered their opinions which obviously are not the same as yours. I certainly don't call that making a big issue of it at all. Did you think that only low carbers would want to have a say about this. That seems a very blinkered view in my personal opinion !

Graham.

So, am I to take it you don't want any discussion about it then. We have been taking a more relaxed view of the split forums, seems someone may have to reconsider that. I thought an open discussion here with all interested parties would have been ideal ? I have certainly enjoyed reading the differing opinions - mind you I do have an open mind, hence the view that it is in the right place for all to see and comment on. I am a firm believer in free speech, live and let live. Be civil to each other and sometimes just agree to disagree. Makes things much simpler.

As for the Bernstien thread that was when people couldn't get along and things were a tad different.
If it was posted now of course you could comment on it, providing it was civil and not inflammatory.

We did hope that attitudes had mellowed a little since then. People less parochial. I mean there are two newish forum's 'elsewhere' where people can post to their hearts content about low carbing with no questions asked or differing opinions, non low carbing with the same.

On this forum we have a mix, so questions can be asked and things explained. We don't all take things at face value, some of us ask questions as well. That seems sensible to me, what we have strived for here is a balance between the two. Hoping that people could get along despite differing opinions. It seems to be working.....? For most of us anyway.