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Mary C Vernon MD

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't think there is a problem promoting books on this forum Graham. The problem seems to be that there are some people who will not accept that different people manage their diabetes in different ways with successful outcomes. Low carb works for some, low G.I. works for some and there are others who do neither but watch what they eat and also have success. When I say that I am not against low carbing then some of the low carbers will not accept this. Why :?: :?: :?: I am pleased that anyone gains control by whatever method they prefer.

You took offence at my post which was a direct answer to Patch and his high fat philosophy and picked up on some of my answer. Perhaps you could tell me if I am doing something wrong by gaining control of my diabetes by another method, with good results :?: Will low carb/high fat work for everyone regardless of their medical problems :?: These questions were also in my post. The answer I got from Patch was that fat is good :?: :?:
 
Hi Catherine
I don't think there is a problem promoting books on this forum Graham.
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Of course not Catherine just so long as it's not related to Low Carb :roll:
Your quote

Mary Vernon is promoting her book and is also the President of the Bariatric Society. Not really an independent voice is she?
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The problem seems to be that there are some people who will not accept that different people manage their diabetes in different ways with successful outcomes.
Low carb works for some, low G.I. works for some and there are others who do neither but watch what they eat and also have success
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I've never disputed that Catherine,I only stressed the need to be aware of spikes from certain low GI foods especially at the 1hr PP.

When I say that I am not against low carbing then some of the low carbers will not accept this. Why I am pleased that anyone gains control by whatever method they prefer.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Laugh I nearly choked on my beer.
It's funny how you seem obsessed with preaching to us the dangers of Low Carbing.

You took offence at my post which was a direct answer to Patch and his high fat philosophy and picked up on some of my answer. Perhaps you could tell me if I am doing something wrong by gaining control of my diabetes by another method, with good results Will low carb/high fat work for everyone regardless of their medical problems These questions were also in my post. The answer I got from Patch was that fat is good
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It was the link you gave that concerned me what on earth has it got to do with Low Carb :?: :?: :?: .


Graham
 
I would have thought that the fact that most low carbers do eat a lot of fat (high fat) makes it very relevant in my view. Simple really !
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But the low carbers do not eat a lot of carbs, making the study irrelevant. Its high carb plus the high fat thats the trouble, reduce the carbs and it's no longer a problem. Really simple !

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-6-6/42376.html

Graham
 
Interesting that when an advocate of Atkins/low-carb says something then it is gospel. When a contrary view based on evidence is put forward then I have often seen comments such as "I wonder who is paying for that research?" Not really an even-handed approach is it. I nail my colours to the mast as a person with diabetes who has control of it but not by low carbing/high fatting. After 11 years of T2, I have just had my annual eye screening and was told that my eyes are very healthy and show no signs that I have diabetes. I have no other 'opathies either. I do it my way and hope that all who take control of their diabetes in other ways are also successful. Life has too many problems anyway without us adding our diabetes to them.

As ever

Doug
 
graham64 said:
I would have thought that the fact that most low carbers do eat a lot of fat (high fat) makes it very relevant in my view. Simple really !
Click to expand...

But the low carbers do not eat a lot of carbs, making the study irrelevant. Its high carb plus the high fat thats the trouble, reduce the carbs and it's no longer a problem. Really simple !

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-6-6/42376.html

Graham
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Osidge, absolutely spot on. :D

Graham.....simple was the word I used, and simple it definitely is. You want to eat a diet that uses high fat and ignore any evidence placed in front of you that that might not be a good idea, that is your choice. That's just fine as far as I am concerned. I do hope you are right to do that ?

I don't eat a lot of fat, certainly not saturated fats, so any studies you come up with which advocate eating low carbs and high fat must also be irrelevant then......using your logic ? Very odd way of looking at things.

I have an open mind so I take on board many things that I might not agree with, it certainly doesn't make the research or the study irrelevant. It just makes ME think a little more about what was stated, make my own mind up.

I could be wrong about all the things I believe, I could be right ? Who's to say, like you, I just hope I am right. I don't feel the need to convert everybody, ridicule everything they say because their opinion differs from mine. I just let people get on with whatever they feel is doing THEM best.
I do however intervene when somebody is spouting something that could be dangerous to others, without any regard to the individuals medical history. Sensible I think.

Each to their own. High fat/high carb/low fat/high carb/high fat/low carb etc etc ....does it really matter. You seem to think you have to educate us lesser mortals all the time that it has to be low carb/high fat.

I have news for you, it doesn't. Even Fergus acknowledges that there are different ways which are successful - give it a rest mate. It's getting tiresome and very predictable. :(

Graham........I'll keep it quiet that you privately told me that Eddie was an idiot and that you didn't know how to get rid of him........ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Your secret is safe with me pal !! :wink:
 
Sometimes I feel that things are rejected, just because of the perceived views of the person who said it. Iagree with some things Mary Vernon says, and not others.
What about this?
carbs can raise your blood sugar, but that does not mean that all carbs are bad. The ones that raise your blood sugar too quickly and too high are high GI foods that also have a high GL, These are mainly foods that are highly refined, highly processed and low in fibre: white rice, bread made with bleached white flour...........
It’s important for people with blood sugar problems to choose unrefined, high fibre, low GI/GL carbs...Lots of unrefined delicious carbs can be found on the *** “eat regularly” and “Eat in moderation”

Choosing grains wisely
Even unprocessed whole grains are relatively high in carbohydrate grams per serving. Some are relatively low in GI and Gl, however, which is why certain wholegrain foods such as kasha(buckwheat) and wholewheat couscous, fall into the ‘eat in moderation category’.......

Old fashioned oatmeal and barley, wholegrains that are on the “eat regularly” **** list, are both high in Beta glucan, a type of digestible fibre. Beta glucan helps keep the carbohydrates in oatmeal and barley from having a big effect on your blood sugar and it also helps slow down your absorption of carbs from other foods as well )
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If I said I was quoting from the GI website, or Ricky Gallops book, some peoples response would be absolutely predictable. If I wrote something similar (I have, several times), I know the response. These quotes are from Mary Vernon's book ***= AGR, Atkins Glycaemic Rating


As for the video, I didn't watch the video(connection not good enough) I agree in parts with her book, find others confusing and have found instances where she says one thing in one chapter but another in a later one, I don't feel that the food plans always reflect what she says in the text(iceberg lettuce anyone, she quite rightly derides it but it features many times in the plans?)
I am still flabberghasted after reading that the plan includes 5 portions of veg at 100g each to read in another chapter that a portion of courgettes is 2 ounces, (about a third of a fairly smalll courgette and 2g carb).
 
Well said Osidge and Cugila !!!

I believe that no matter how you control your diabetes is irrelevant, providing you are maintaining a healthy well balanced diet, and you have good control of bg's as a result.

Nobody is right, or wrong whem deciding what diet to follow. There is always evidence for/against eating certain foods or following a particular diet, at times it can be quite bewildering! In short, no one has the answer, only by keeping check of weight, blood glucose, cholestrerol etc, can you be certain that your diet is right for you; what suits one, may not suit another, and offering advice to people without knowing their health background is ****-right dangerous!

Graham 64, you do seem to bang the drum a bit to much regarding your low-carb diet. At times it can be quite boring and tedious. I suggest that you perhaps climb down from your pedestal, and accept that perhaps your way, is not the only way in controlling diabetes.

Regards

Nigel
 
Each to their own. High fat/high carb/low fat/high carb/high fat/low carb etc etc ....does it really matter. You seem to think you have to educate us lesser mortals all the time that it has to be low carb/high fat.

I have news for you, it doesn't. Even Fergus acknowledges that there are different ways which are successful - give it a rest mate. It's getting tiresome and very predictable.
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Just remember Ken it was your decision to move the thread , but I agree it's time to put this to bed but not before I set the record straight.

In past posts I have acknowledged that for various medical reasons a high fat diet is not appropriate for everyone, and I have also stated again for medical reasons, some have no alternative other than use medications control their diabetes. And yes and I have agreed :shock: at times that other than Low Carb can work.

The video is about the use of carbohydrate restriction to keep medications to a minimum and keep BG under control, Atkins was mentioned only briefly at the end cough and you'd miss it.

Dr Vernon is a Low carb advocate, which is why I originally posted in the LC forum to avoid the sort of confrontation that's gone on in this thread.

Noblehead thanks for your kind comments :roll:

Giving it a rest
Graham
 
Guys,

I chose lo-carb as I was in a bad way and had to get control fast, which I did in 3 months. I was diet agnostic when I "arrived", but on reflection,I couldnt see the volume of support from any community other than the lo-carb fraternity and I had to try something - it worked for me, a life long yo-yo dieter. Agree with all the comments about do what is best for you and I still take a lot of heart from the video, though still have some confusion as to whether getiing completely off Metformin is a laudible objective, given its cardiovascular protective properties and the possibility that it extends the life of your beta cells by relieving the pressure on them?...
.....Steve.
 
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catherinecherub argued against a low carb high fat diet, but then provided this link to an experiment writeup:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 142001.htm


Like so many other experiments this experiment tested a high carb high fat diet against a high carb low fat diet. It did not test either diet against a low carb high fat diet ........the diet catherinecherub argued against.

As a general low carber I agree with the experiment's finding. But they don't apply to this discussion.

The medical/political establishment has a kneejerk reaction to cholesterol ......whatever you eat, you store. Not true. Lipid storage is a function of carb ingestion, immune function and insulin response. Fat provides energy six times as efficiently as sugar, and bypasses mytochondrial metabolism.
..

..
 
I did not argue against anything veggienft,
I asked if a low carb diet was recommended for people who had good control by other methods and those with medical problems and asked if it would be detrimental to their health. It may have taken a long time but towards the end I was given a view from a low carber which was acceptable.

Is it your intention to start up another debate?/argument? I ask because this subject seems to have been exhausted.
 
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