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Mask Exemptions in enclosed environments

Including the deputy chief medical officer.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-says-face-coverings-evidence-not-strong.html

Let's see how long she lasts...
I can understand and respect the belief that they're ineffective. Also that they promote a sense that people are safe because they and those around them are wearing masks, and so social distancing measures can be ignored.

I'm more curious about the borderline conspiracy stuff: that nearly every government in the world has colluded to play some sort of massive practical joke on us all. Also, the credibility that this seems to have with some very intelligent and well educated people I know. It's almost on par with the outright virus deniers. And there are a fair few of those about.
 
...that nearly every government in the world has colluded to play some sort of massive practical joke on us all.

They've been doing it successfully with food for fifty years so don't dismiss the possibility so easily. Personally I think it's more of a social media appeasing overreaction than a conspiracy but nothing would surprise me.
 
I'm more curious about the borderline conspiracy stuff: that nearly every government in the world has colluded to play some sort of massive practical joke on us all. Also, the credibility that this seems to have with some very intelligent and well educated people I know. It's almost on par with the outright virus deniers. And there are a fair few of those about.
Agreed, I don't think Angela Merkel and the Robert Koch Institute are going to take part in any hoax.
 
I’ve seen a few videos and statements by doctors which confirm that a good mask doesn’t reduce the amount of oxygen you receive (I’ll post when I’ve located at least one of them)

I did a little experiment on a hot day where I’d been wearing each type of mask we use at work for well over an hour, lumping heavy patients about and generally getting quite hot & sweaty. No difference in my measured oxygen levels. Only n=1 of course. 5F056882-8635-42F6-A27D-20B9FC054121.jpeg
 
I can understand and respect the belief that they're ineffective.

In what way can you understand something that has no evidence? Why would you respect or believe something that is quite clearly wrong? There is stacks of evidence going back 20 years, research with conclusions stating we should wear a mask. Not reading it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Where does it say it's ineffective, Daily Mail, the Express? No wonder the country is in a mess.

Looking at these re-usable face shields I'd like to suggest that there is just no excuse for non compliance of a mask wearing instruction.
reusable-face-shield-visor.jpg
Correct me if I'm wrong but we are in the middle of a pandemic, a virus that is spread just by breathing amongst other things. Or am I supposed to believe the likes of David Icke, someone with absolutely no evidence of there being a conspiracy to inject us with nano robots to control us. I don't think the queen is a lizard either.
 
I would like to try and dispel the myth that wearing masks is ineffective. It's dangerous to perpetuate this myth, it will affect people's lives. Research has been carried out over the last 20 years or more, a lot in south east Asia because that's where they have experienced many epidemics (a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time) and pandemics (a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease prevalent over a whole country or the world).

This piece of research, not peer reviewed at the time of printing in June 2020 (it was a pre-print) available at

https://royalsociety.org/-/media/po...a=en-GB&hash=A22A87CB28F7D6AD9BD93BBCBFC2BB24

is quite clear in it's recommendations. It's contributors, mostly university professors number more than a dozen.

It's key points are summerised as follows:

Cloth face coverings are effective in reducing source virus transmission, i.e., outward protection of others, when they are of optimal material and construction (high grade cotton, hybrid and multi-layer) and fitted correctly and for source protection of the wearer.
• Socio-behavioural factors are vital to understanding public adherence to wearing face masks and coverings, including public understanding of virus transmission, risk perception, trust, altruism, individual traits, perceived barriers.
• Face masks and coverings cannot be seen in isolation but are part of ‘policy packages’ and it is imperative to review interrelated non-pharmaceutical interventions in tandem including hand hygiene, sanitizers and social distancing when maintaining the 2 metre or 1 metre+ distancing rule is not possible.
• Consistent and effective public messaging is vital to public adherence of wearing face masks and coverings. Conflicting policy advice generates confusion and lack of compliance. Populations without a previous history of mask wearing have rapidly adopted face coverings during the COVID-19 period.

This is just one of many reports, the evidence is out there and doesn't take much to find it.
 
It's dangerous to perpetuate this myth...

With respect, it's dangerous to stifle constructive debate. That is how you end up in a totalitarian state. There is evidence on both sides of maskgate, and neither side has the right to censor the discussion. Disagreement is fine, even healthy, but shutting down conversation you disagree with is neither.
 
Deputy CMO appears to disagree somewhat.

I wonder what research the chief medical officer is basing her opinion on? She disagrees but based what? Just opinion? Her statement starts confusing the issue, which the government have already been unclear on in the first place. The government are quite happy if we all get the virus, do I want to take the chance? Do I want you or anybody else to behave in such a way as to increase the chances of me catching the virus? I got my letter from the NHS telling me to stay indoors for 12 weeks and at least with people wearing masks I have a chance to 'pop out' now and again.

With respect, it's dangerous to stifle constructive debate. T

I would never want to stifle constructive debate. I would like to see some more evidence. The problem is, and I've been saying this for ages, if I'm wrong then all that happens is people wear some sort of protective covering for nothing. If I'm right and people haven't bothered to wear a mask then the outcome is possibly far worse than a mild flu.

However, there does seem to be an awful lot more research advising the wearing of face protection than otherwise. However, on the opposite side of this discussion, one piece of research I did find at https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381 concluded:

Conclusion: The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza. It suggests that N95 respirators should not be recommended for general public and non high-risk medical staff those are not in close contact with influenza patients or suspected patients.

In this particular case it doesn't say what to do if you're walking about in an environment where anybody might be infected with covid, we have no way of knowing if we're in close contact. Also, it doesn't even consider the beneficial effect on other people if one person wears a mask.

Dr Jennie Harries has suggested that those receiving fake virus-tracing phone calls could identify them from the tone of the conversation. This has met with controversy and there have been calls on her to resign.I wonder what scientific research that was based on?
 
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It is very easy to provide evidence of talking heads on the news who have opinions on masks.
In fact, it is easy to find anyone with opinions on masks. Everyone has an opinion. Some of them are frankly bizarre.
Meanwhile, I shall continue to wear masks for whatever (debateably small) benefit they may have in protecting vulnerable members of the population.

It still puzzles me that anyone makes an issue out of putting a piece of fabric over their mouths.
Even if it only saves one life, by preventing onward transmission of asymptomatic infection, that life is worth saving.
 
Some positive and hopeful news regarding masks being a possible benefit to the wearer. Well worth a watch.

 
Some positive and hopeful news regarding masks being a possible benefit to the wearer. Well worth a watch.


Who is the guy presenting and what are his credentials? I don’t recognise him and would be interested to know.
 
Meanwhile, I shall continue to wear masks for whatever (debateably small) benefit they may have in protecting vulnerable members of the population.

The WHO recommend wearing a mask.

Over 100 countries have mandated wearing a mask, some from as far back as April (https://masks4all.co/what-countries-require-masks-in-public/ for a list)

There are ample studies and research documents for everyone to see online. Here's just the first ten I came to:

https://royalsociety.org/-/media/po...a=en-GB&hash=A22A87CB28F7D6AD9BD93BBCBFC2BB24

https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext (analysis of 172 studies)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200612172200.htm

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768533

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 (links to other pieces of research)

https://www.ed.ac.uk/covid-19-response/latest-news/masks-block-spread-of-covid-linked-droplets

https://pws.byu.edu/byu-covid-19-and-masks

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06067-8

Is there really a debate? I don't think so. Even now there there is some research being published that suggests that even if wearing a mask isn't 100% (which it isn't) it will decrease the viral load and improve clinical outcomes.
 
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Who is the guy presenting and what are his credentials? I don’t recognise him and would be interested to know.

His name is Dr John Campbell.
He has a you tube channel and has been making videos tracking the research and media progress of Covid-19 since the beginning of the outbreak. I understand that he has been a healthcare professional for the last 30+ years, including taking part in studies (design, recruitment, managing), and working in A&E here in the UK, as well as working and training people abroad.

This is the introduction to his you tube channel (have removed links to his training books, in line with the forum rules on advertising)

Hello Everyone,

My name is John Campbell and I am a retired Nurse Teacher and A and E nurse based in England. I also do some teaching in Asia and Africa when time permits. These videos are to help students to learn the background to all forms of health care. My PhD focused on the development of open learning resources for nurses nationally and internationally.

These media including videos... are not peer-reviewed. They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own health care provider. No media-based material on this channel is suitable for using as professional medical advice. All comments are also for educational purposes only and must never replace advice from your own health care provider.

https://www.youtube.com/c/Campbellteaching/videos


I have found his videos very informative, esp the recent one assessing the research on Hydroxychloroquine
 
Is there really a debate? I don't think so. Even now there there is some research being published that suggests that even if wearing a mask isn't 100% (which it isn't) it will decrease the viral load and improve clinical outcomes.

Yes, there really is a debate.
It is played out regularly on this thread and others here on the forum, and elsewhere all over the internet.
You get every perspective from the rabid don't-infringe-my-personal-liberty people, to the rabid everyone-should-wear-a-mask-once-they-leave-their-house people.
The debate rages on...
I am very surprised that you do not realise this, and that you think that producing a WHO link will convince anyone of anything. The WHO have not covered themselves with glory during the pandemic.
For every reference you produce showing that masks are effective, someone else will come along with another link saying the opposite. It has happened already higher up this page, with one of your own posts.
Welcome to the WWW where everyone is an expert.
 
I am very surprised that you do not realise this, and that you think that producing a WHO link will convince anyone of anything.

I haven't included a link to the WHO, just a mention that they have now changed their advice, hopefully having looked at the evidence. It might be that mentioning the WHO isn't going to convince anyone in particular although it should, given what they're there for.

For every reference you produce showing that masks are effective, someone else will come along with another link saying the opposite.

I'm tempted to issue a challenge, I've tried to list ten different studies/research articles. Lets see ten that say the opposite. There again, I'm sure we all have better things to do. Masks and face coverings are to be used anyway.

Welcome to the WWW where everyone is an expert.

I would never make that claim myself and I think what's important to recognise is that not everything on the WWW is rubbish. Although there is a lot of rubbish and bonkers opinion, there is also a lot of peer reviewed research available for all to read.

Obviously Dr Jenny Harries, Deputy Chief Medical Officer for England, hasn't done her research.
 
Who is the guy presenting and what are his credentials? I don’t recognise him and would be interested to know.

Exactly as Brunneria said. I've watched him all through this crisis and to be fair I find his honesty refreshing. He does comment on many peer-reviewed studies as well so I therefore find him a very good starting point to then conduct your own research if you want. I also find him very good in admitting he is wrong or has forwarded incorrect information in a previous video. I've got to say he nailed it earlier in the pandemic when many were dithering.
 
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I, too, will continue to wear a mask. I’ve been more persuaded by the carefully conducted experiments I’ve seen that show the way a mask will limit sharing of moisture breathed, coughed or sneezed out, and the information about Covid being spread in droplet and aerosols, than I have by the counter arguments. Moreover, I’ll act according to current understanding and do what I believe will protect others but will be prepared to take extra, or different precautions if there are new findings about the ways Covid is transmitted. I use 70% alcohol sanitiser, hand and container washing with soap to break the virus’ lipids, and spraying high concentration soap based detergent on surfaces when necessary.
I’m very grateful when other people also seek to protect others.
 
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