Type 1 Meal GI

[Bananas 2]

I noticed none of the pharma companies lists a "suggested meal-GI" for any of their products. Granted, it is slightly different for each individual, BUT there should be a general range, as "rapid" insulin definitely has a different associated meal-GI range than Regular insulin. This seems rather irresponsible to me. People figure out, or already know, whether they are faster or slower than the mean.

Has anyone figured out the general "Meal-GI" range if using rapid-acting insulin (Lispro, et al)?
(I have figured out the R range on my own, and am investigating rapid-acting)

If none...

For those using rapid and using CGM: What complete meal gives the best performance (straightest line)? --please describe each component in grams, and please be specific -- such as, if using potatoes, include what type and method (50g yellow potatoes, boiled). Condiments, if any, etc.... I can figure out the rest and will reply.

Thanks to all who can respond.

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi Bananas 2 - I'm not T1, but my post will bump your thread up the viewing lists.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[DCUKMod]

I noticed none of the pharma companies lists a "suggested meal-GI" for any of their products. Granted, it is slightly different for each individual, BUT there should be a general range, as "rapid" insulin definitely has a different associated meal-GI range than Regular insulin. This seems rather irresponsible to me. People figure out, or already know, whether they are faster or slower than the mean.

Has anyone figured out the general "Meal-GI" range if using rapid-acting insulin (Lispro, et al)?
(I have figured out the R range on my own, and am investigating rapid-acting)

If none...

For those using rapid and using CGM: What complete meal gives the best performance (straightest line)? --please describe each component in grams, and please be specific -- such as, if using potatoes, include what type and method (50g yellow potatoes, boiled). Condiments, if any, etc.... I can figure out the rest and will reply.

Thanks to all who can respond.

@Bananas 2 - Your profile suggest you are 10 years of age? Is this correct? If not, it can be altered for you. Just PM me your date of birth and I can adjust your profile accordingly.

Apologies if I have made a mistake.

 

[rmz80]

Im assuming your wanting a rule for predicting a BG at 2 hours after a meal, I personally never found these 2 hour readings much use for the reason below.

I can understand these measurements being relevant if a meal just consisted of one type of carb e.g. just in the form of potato. But meals tend to be a combination of fast carbs(sugars), slower carbs (starches) and fibre carbs .

Glycemic Load (GL) and (Gylcemic Index) food tables tend to list just one type of food rather than combinations.

As as example; If I have porridge (oats), milk and 2 spoonfuls of sugar. The sugar is a fast carb (and some of the milk). Whereas the oats will be a slow starchy carb with some very slow fibre carb content. To come up with a general formula for just these 3 items would be a nightmare.

 

[Bananas 2]

As as example; If I have porridge (oats), milk and 2 spoonfuls of sugar. The sugar is a fast carb (and some of the milk). Whereas the oats will be a slow starchy carb with some very slow fibre carb content. To come up with a general formula for just these 3 items would be a nightmare.

Actually, that's not how it works. You dont get three separate curves if you eat three different items together. Eating-order makes a a bit of difference (like eating a salad before a meal will be somewhat more buffer effect than after), but eating different items together in a meal, what you get is a "weighted average of carb-GI". Slower items take up acids/enzymes etc and slow the absorption of the other faster items. This is reflected in the standard formula posted by various universities and other sites.

Examples:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/4/992/embed/inline-graphic-1.gif
https://www.livestrong.com/article/74125-calculate-glycemic-index/

The formula works for measured carb items, but has drawbacks when adding meats and fat. You may be aware that carbs+fat/protein/fiber=slower carbs. I have already solved the equation to account for this effect and not my point here.

I am trying to gauge the difference in optimal(ave) meal-GI range between rapid and regular(R) insulin users.

Now, if anyone would like to "play" and test this out, all I need is your optimal meal (if you are using rapid and can monitor with CGM)... I will shoot back a different meal -- perhaps one you have trouble with, but would like to enjoy - just let me know what it is. The new meal will be designed/adjusted to have the same properties as your optimal meal and should yield the same stable BG results. You'll have the advantage of looking it over, and of course, the decision to actually try it out or not is yours.

Care to play?

 

[Bananas 2]

@Bananas 2 - Your profile suggest you are 10 years of age? Is this correct? If not, it can be altered for you. Just PM me your date of birth and I can adjust your profile accordingly.

Apologies if I have made a mistake.

Yeah... wasn't sure how to deal with that, as it would not seem to allow me to specify that my son is diabetic.

 

[DCUKMod]

Yeah... wasn't sure how to deal with that, as it would not seem to allow me to specify that my son is diabetic.

Thanks Bananas - There is a category for Parent. You can alter that by going to your Account, then scrolling down to the heading "Diabetes Type" and selecting from the available list there. To change your Date of Birth, if you want to show it, I'd have to help with that.

If you get stuck let me know.

 

[rmz80]

Actually, that's not how it works. You dont get three separate curves if you eat three different items together. Eating-order makes a a bit of difference (like eating a salad before a meal will be somewhat more buffer effect than after), but eating different items together in a meal, what you get is a "weighted average of carb-GI". Slower items take up acids/enzymes etc and slow the absorption of the other faster items. This is reflected in the standard formula posted by various universities and other sites.

Examples:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/4/992/embed/inline-graphic-1.gif
https://www.livestrong.com/article/74125-calculate-glycemic-index/

The formula works for measured carb items, but has drawbacks when adding meats and fat. You may be aware that carbs+fat/protein/fiber=slower carbs. I have already solved the equation to account for this effect and not my point here.

I am trying to gauge the difference in optimal(ave) meal-GI range between rapid and regular(R) insulin users.

Now, if anyone would like to "play" and test this out, all I need is your optimal meal (if you are using rapid and can monitor with CGM)... I will shoot back a different meal -- perhaps one you have trouble with, but would like to enjoy - just let me know what it is. The new meal will be designed/adjusted to have the same properties as your optimal meal and should yield the same stable BG results. You'll have the advantage of looking it over, and of course, the decision to actually try it out or not is yours.

Care to play?

I recall reading on the University of Sydney site that GI is measured by giving the sample food in question to a number of volunteers (without diabetes) then measuring their BG at two hours. I think you would need to do the same except with diabetic volunteers

 

[Bananas 2]

I recall reading on the University of Sydney site that GI is measured by giving the sample food in question to a number of volunteers (without diabetes) then measuring their BG at two hours. I think you would need to do the same except with diabetic volunteers

That applies to core-foods - like carrots, potatoes, apples, various sugars, grains, flours (which have mechanically raised GIs over their whole grain counterparts), etc. Also cooking can effect GI as well, as with carrots: raw the GI is around 23, fully cooked around 70, and par-cooked is between the two. Method as well, boiling (which can extract starch if water is discarded) vs baking, etc. I take all this into account, where data is available.

Once you have these core-food GIs, you can calculate combinations thereof as described above.

 

[rmz80]

I still don’t really understand the question you are asking. As I see it you are wanting a food that will match the decay pattern of an insulin at handling blood glucose for a set dosage? Why? The insulin only has to meet the requirement to control BG within a range i.e. 4 to 7 mmol/L rather than an absolute value.

I used to create a “half” (and even ¼) unit of insulin by injecting one extra unit then chew 2 Haribro Gold Bears at the same time as injecting (nearly pure glucose) to cancel the extra half unit. This way I could fine tune BG to my target.

 

[Bananas 2]

I still don’t really understand the question you are asking. As I see it you are wanting a food that will match the decay pattern of an insulin at handling blood glucose for a set dosage? Why? The insulin only has to meet the requirement to control BG within a range i.e. 4 to 7 mmol/L rather than an absolute value.

I used to create a “half” (and even ¼) unit of insulin by injecting one extra unit then chew 2 Haribro Gold Bears at the same time as injecting (nearly pure glucose) to cancel the extra half unit. This way I could fine tune BG to my target.

No worries, mate.
I've learned something just the same.