Measuring ketone levels and glucose levels in England

[Member496333]

...I don't know how to continue to increasing my microbiome's diversity...

I'm a believer in the microbiome being as diverse as it needs to be in order to be in symbiosis with the host's diet. From my readings, we don't know enough about gut flora to be making calls on what we should or shouldn't be aiming for. My view is that if I eat real, species-appropriate food instead of artificial food-like products, then my biome will adapt accordingly, and healthily. Nature knows more than we ever will in a million lifetimes.

All only in my opinion, of course.

 

[Winnie53]

Jim, I think you know far better than I what works best for you.

My husband and I have been together for 40 years. Lately, we've started grocery shopping together once a week. He heads for the meat department. I head for the produce department.

It's funny, we prepare and eat meals together but he feels best eating more meat, while I feel best eating more produce. It's always been that way with us, and I don't see that changing.

If I try to eat like he does, I just don't feel good. The same is true for him.

Historically, the carnivore diet appears to have worked well. And you, bulkbiker, and Goonergal are clearly demonstrating that it's working well for you right now.

Interestingly, even though my husband and I eat somewhat differently, we're both enjoying reasonably good health. We even have similar lab test results eating a real, whole food diet for the last 4 to 5 years. That's all that matters to me.

 

[Member496333]

Jim, I think you know far better than I what works best for you.

My husband and I have been together for 40 years. Lately, we've started grocery shopping together once a week. He heads for the meat department. I head for the produce department.

It's funny, we prepare and eat meals together but he feels best eating more meat, while I feel best eating more produce. It's always been that way with us, and I don't see that changing.

If I try to eat like he does, I just don't feel good. The same is true for him.

Historically, the carnivore diet appears to have worked well. And you, bulkbiker, and Goonergal are clearly demonstrating that it's working well for you right now.

Interestingly, even though my husband and I eat somewhat differently, we're both enjoying reasonably good health. We even have similar lab test results eating a real, whole food diet for the last 4 to 5 years. That's all that matters to me.

Sure thing. My comments had nothing to do with carnivore or any other dietary choices in terms of their suitability or efficacy for good health. I was merely responding on the topic of the gut biome. I don’t believe that anyone, eating any [healthy] diet, needs to worry too much about it. From my readings, the best current understanding is that it adapts to whatever we eat, and that we don’t really need to concern ourselves unless it’s being fed junk from very poor eating habits.

For example, I do not need a biome that is great at efficiently munching through plant matter, but a vegetarian does. We wouldn’t have the same diversity but that doesn’t make either right or wrong, or one better than the other. As I like to say, eat real food and nature takes care of everything else.

Sorry I wasn’t clearer. I should have taken the time to explain further. This is also derailing...

 

[Winnie53]

Jim, I can only speak for myself. What you are saying could very well be true for you and bulkbiker, but it's not true for me because I have ulcerative colitis.

To illustrate my point. Last spring I roasted fresh broccoli with garlic cloves, lightly coated with extra virgin olive oil. The next morning I woke to a severely inflamed colon and the start of a UC flare that I could not reverse despite already eating healthy, fasting, having great glucose levels, walking, and losing weight.

At six months I had a colonoscopy and they removed a flat, humped polyp that looked cancerous. Given its size, and based on its known growth rate, I believe it developed and began its slow growth when my diabetes was out of control, prior to learning about and beginning the low carb/keto diet five years ago.

Thankfully, the pathologist found that it was still in its precancerous stage and they're going to recheck my colon next fall to make sure they got it all and it's not regrowing. I was very lucky.

Not sure what you're reading, but according to the research, when the gut microbiomes of UC patients are compared to controls who don't have UC, some bad species are over represented and some good species are under represented. Additionally, there is also research that highly processed plant oils, especially when heated, also likely play a role in UC flares (so I only cook with animal fats now, no plant based oils; lesson learned).

Like it or not, genetics can and do influence what we as individuals can and can't eat. And because I have UC, I will continue to eat plant foods (in addition to animal foods) to increase the diversity of my gut microbiome. All that said, you may not need to. Agreed.

 

[bulkbiker]

Jim, I can only speak for myself. What you are saying could very well be true for you and bulkbiker, but it's not true for me because I have ulcerative colitis.

To illustrate my point. Last spring I roasted fresh broccoli with garlic cloves, lightly coated with extra virgin olive oil. The next morning I woke to a severely inflamed colon and the start of a UC flare that I could not reverse despite already eating healthy, fasting, having great glucose levels, walking, and losing weight.

At six months I had a colonoscopy and they removed a flat, humped polyp that looked cancerous. Given its size, and based on its known growth rate, I believe it developed and began its slow growth when my diabetes was out of control, prior to learning about and beginning the low carb/keto diet five years ago.

Thankfully, the pathologist found that it was still in its precancerous stage and they're going to recheck my colon next fall to make sure they got it all and it's not regrowing. I was very lucky.

Not sure what you're reading, but according to the research, when the gut microbiomes of UC patients are compared to controls who don't have UC, some bad species are over represented and some good species are under represented. Additionally, there is also research that highly processed plant oils, especially when heated, also likely play a role in UC flares (so I only cook with animal fats now, no plant based oils; lesson learned).

Like it or not, genetics can and do influence what we as individuals can and can't eat. And because I have UC, I will continue to eat plant foods (in addition to animal foods) to increase the diversity of my gut microbiome. All that said, you may not need to. Agreed.

You might find this interesting

the-carnivore-diet-for-inflammatory-bowel-disease-ibd

 

[Winnie53]

bulkbiker, I'm having a look around the website now, and it's purpose is clearly to promote the carnivore diet and a few other alternative treatment approaches such as cannabis while ignoring the specific carbohydrate diet (SCD) that has restored or improved the health of a lot of people with IBD, IBS, and celiac disease over the last 100 years. I'm one of them. I have IBD and non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS), and have had only 3 or 4 brief flares in 20 years and am symptom free 99% of the time. SCD is essentially an elimination diet, but not as restrictive as the carnivore diet.

This is personal for me. I've talked about this briefly before. I lost both my father and his sister to cancer when they were in their 60's. Almost all others in my family, both sides, lived into their 80's and 90's. The difference? My father and aunt both had ulcerative colitis, and the rest of the family didn't. (Their parents were first cousins and some of their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren have suffered health consequences: I got the IBD but luckily didn't get the pseudoxythoma elasticum, a rare, genetic eye disease that causes blindness typically beginning after age 40).

Two big questions in my mind are what causes cancer? And how do you prevent it? (To be clear, I don't believe eating meat causes cancer, nor do I believe the research promoting that hypothesis).

Here's a question I haven't seen addressed in the carnivore movement.

If we truly don't need to consume plant fiber to bind with toxins that we take in daily through our nose, skin, and mouth, that the liver then processes out of the body and into the colon for removal from the body, and if we truly don't need the phytonutrients found in vegetables, herbs, and spices, how does that work? More to the point, are we giving up on the carnivore diet foods that are important for our health and longevity?

 

[Winnie53]

Interesting. While many links are broken on the above linked website, guthack.com, I was able to find the article on SCD here on the website... https://guthack.com/lifestyle/scd-diet/the-specific-carbohydrate-diet-scd-diet-for-ibs-and-ibd/ It's a good overview of the SCD and a reminder that while this diet restricts a lot of foods, similar to the paleo diet, many find they can add back some, many, or all of the foods - one at a time to see if it's now tolerated or not - after strictly following the diet for more than a year of two. That was my experience. It's restrictive at first, but becomes less restrictive over time.

 

[bulkbiker]

If we truly don't need to consume plant fiber to bind with toxins that we take in daily through our nose, skin, and mouth, that the liver then processes out of the body and into the colon for removal from the body, and if we truly don't need the phytonutrients found in vegetables, herbs, and spices, how does that work?

You let the mechanism for processing the toxins, the liver, deal with them without overloading it with other toxins from plants?

There are no essential dietary carbs so nature would be pretty stupid if we then needed dietary phytonutrients from plants that contain carbs don't you think?

I'm just trying to show you alternative views that I think have value... up to you if you decide to follow them or not.

 

[Winnie53]

bulkbiker, if I wasn't in remission 99% of the time with my IBD, and if the low carb/keto diet wasn't enough manage my IBD and type 2 diabetes, I would, like you, investigate and try other approaches until I found what works best for me.

Thank you for the link to the guthack.com website. I really liked the article on the SCD. It was easy to read and understand, and I'll likely link to it in the future.

Don't understand why, but I tolerate most animal and plant foods well. It's mostly grains, sugars, and seed oils that are problematic for me. If I eat out, I'm very limited by where I can dine and what I can eat, and fine dining is so expensive.

That said, I'm so addicted to sugar. I'm managing but it likely will be a lifelong challenge for me.

And I'm in agreement with you. Plant foods can be very problematic for some people, and I'm not referring to processed foods. I'm referring to real, whole foods.

I'm glad you're there and available to help those who may benefit from the carnivore diet. It's been life changing for you. And I know it's been life saving for others. If I come across someone interested in the diet, I will definitely direct them to you. Your posts here are always so thoughtful and well reasoned.

When I started my local diabetes group, I wasn't prepared for how much I'd have to learn about diet and nutrition due to the varying challenges and needs of our members. We're coming up on our five year anniversary. After taking a six month break from facilitating the group, I've decided I need help from the local healthcare community. So far, I've found two that are really up on the current thinking about lifestyle and health, that's so well understood here on this forum. It's a start. Hoping through those two, I'll be able to build a network of local healthcare providers to refer our members.