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Type 2 Medication change increased my blood glucose levels

Messages
1
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi everyone, I'm new here and hoping that some of you may be able to provide some clarity and/or peace of mind for me.

I think a short potted history may help, so here goes.

I was diagnosed as Type 2 diabetic in December 2011, having been obese for the best part of a decade and, at that point, eating incredibly unhealthily and not exercising at all on account of having lost my job a year prior in the recession. Over the next few years I slowly but surely managed to get my BG under control with a combination, ultimately, of 40mg gliclazide (breakfast, dinner) and 850mg metformin (breakfast, lunch, dinner) and improvements in diet and activity levels. I hadn't lost much weight (dropped from ~140kg to 130kg) but my fitness was significantly improved and my HbA1c results were consistently in the top third of the acceptable range.

I struggled with depression in the last quarter of 2016 and into 2017, and as a consequence of not being active and eating copious amounts of comfort food have found myself back in a similar situation to which I found myself when I was first diagnosed. After a second HbA1c this year in which my BG levels had doubled from the first* - which was incredibly disappointing, because I had already started making efforts to get to grips with my diet at the very least - the diabetes nurse suggested that the best course of action would be to alter my medication, from the above to 80mg gliclazide/1000mg metformin at breakfast and dinner. Then to start measuring my BG twice a day to see how I was progressing.**

For the fortnight before I changed medication (comedy prescription mix-up shenanigans) I was measuring my BG before breakfast and last thing before bed (mostly), and found my levels dropping slowly but steadily from a high of 15.6mmol/L down to 10.9mmol/L, and with being back at work full time, getting my bike back on the road and getting more of a grip on my diet, I expected this trend to continue, possibly even faster with the change in medication regimen.

Instead, the following week has seen my BG levels shoot back up to the 17-18mmol/L range, seemingly no matter what I eat. I appreciate that it isn't a large sample of evidence to work with yet but it is concerning enough that I felt I needed to seek some opinions, prior to my telephone appointment with the diabetes nurse on Wednesday. Is this a common reaction? Should I be concerned about a correlation between the lowering of the daily metformin dose and the BG increase? Is it more likely to be the lack of any medication with my lunch? Or should I just give it a bit more time?

Thanks in advance for any advice or experiences you would care to share.


* Apologies for the lack of numbers, I still haven't gotten my head around the "new" measurements and because of the stress and depression I've been liable to forget quite a bit.

** I note with interest the thread which suggests daily BG testing should be de rigeur, which was not what has ever been suggested to me.
 
Hi @Brownian_Motion .. and welcome
You have certainly made a good move coming here .. I was diagnosed T2 in early Feb .. a bit shell-shocked with no information and no real idea of what was happening to me. Since joining this forum, though, the folks here have given me so much info, advice and support that I am now much more confident about the journey ahead. So ask your questions and be assured that you will receive the answers that you need. It's still early for me but, in my experience, it gets easier .. very quickly.

Managing and controlling your diabetes through exercise, diet and testing your BG (Blood Glucose) seems to be the best way forward for many people. For me, committing to an LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) lifestyle and testing 3-5 times a day seems to be working and you'll find that there is a wealth of info, relevant advice and positive support about LCHF on the forum ..

I have tagged @daisy1 for you and I suggest that you read up on the Low Carb Program in the information that she will soon be sending you. You might also find the discussion on the Low Carb Diet forum helpful .. and the following Diet Doctor websites ...
Low Carb Intro and Information
Low Carbs in 60 Seconds

It sounds as though you already have a meter and that you are testing regularly but if not it is a top priority that you get yourself one and, for this, the following websites might help:
https://homehealth-uk.com/product-category/blood-glucose/
for the SD Codefree meter, which costs £12.98 (you don't pay VAT) or:
http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-blood-glucose-meter/
who distribute the TEE 2 meter, which is free.
I have both for comparative purposes and I have never found any significant difference between them. Unless you are prescribed test strips by your doctor (unlikely), the costs of testing comes down to the ongoing charges for test strips and lancets. I'm testing 3-5 times a day which works out at around £10 to £12 per month for either of the two packages above but, more importantly, I now know what my BG levels are .. and I can now manage them
Hope this helps
 
Metformin isn't supposed to act on blood sugar directly - and I saw no change when I stopped taking it, but I wonder if you have changed your diet to include more carbohydrate due to the change in your circumstances.
Testing is usually best done just before a meal and then two hours after, so you can see how foods affect you and so you can adjust what you eat to avoid spikes.
You should be testing as you are taking gliclazide, which should also mean that you make changes in your diet at a slow rate to see how the medication interacts.
 
Hi @Brownian_Motion (cool name!) and welcome to the forum!

You've had quite a ride, all told. But you're in the right place. I'm very new to diabetes (I'm on day 13 of my diagnosis) so can't advise you on numbers. What I can say is that you're in the right place to start learning to take control of your illness - there's a wealth of wonderful people here, all with different experiences, advice, background and all of whom have very broad shoulders to lean on and lots of patience when it comes to newcomers and questions, so don't be shy.

There's a few things I'm coming to accept as true when it comes to T2 diabetes:

1. The NHS (and therefore NICE) guidance is wrong. They don't believe T2s should test, they still promote a high-carb diet, they haven't caught up to all the latest research and findings that are pouring out of universities and organisations that actually deal with - and therefore learn from - diabetics on a daily basis.

2. Carbs are the enemy. Not just sugar. If you've been doing everything "right" following all the advice your diabetes nurse has been giving you, eating all the brown rice and wholemeal bread and sweet potatoes and whatnot, then you've not stood a chance. Plus, without daily monitoring, you've been kept in the dark.

3. Obesity doesn't cause diabetes. It's related to and possibly a symptom of diabetes, but not an inherent cause. Super-thin, super-healthy people get it, and there are lots of very obese people who will never get it.

4. This forum is an incredible place to find support, inspiration, comfort, advice and solid information. And many of the posters here have learned how to control their illness using diet alone, being able to come off their meds completely and, in a lot of cases, push their T2 completely into remission. A lot of these people had had T2 for a very long time - these outcomes aren't just for the newly diagnosed.

I hope things settle for you soon. I'm sure lots of folks like @daisy1 will be along shortly to give you lots of brilliant links and info to help you figure out what's going on. Don't lose hope - you'll get the hang of your illness and end up in control of it, I'm certain.

Much love,

Sock x
 
Hi @Brownian_Motion and welcome to the forum, where you will receive the best advice available from people who are also diabetic.

I agree with others that self testing is essential. Fasting and bedtimes tests are all very well, but what does it teach you? Nothing at all.

You need to start testing immediately before you eat and again 2 hours after first bite. Look at the rise as this tells you what that meal has done to your blood sugar levels. If you also keep a food diary of everything that passes your lips, including portion sizes, and record your levels alongside you will see patterns. If a meal raises you more than 2mmol/l there are too many carbs in that meal. It is preferable to be under 1.5mmol/l higher. You can then look at these carbs and either eliminate some or reduce the portions.

The worst culprits are bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, breakfast cereals and flour. These also include the wholemeal varieties. We also need to be careful with fruit.

The reduction in Metformin will not have caused an increase. The increase in Gliclazide may help. This drug works differently from Metformin. It works by stimulating your pancreas to produce extra insulin.

As you seem to have lost or forgotten your numbers from test results, I suggest you ask for print outs (certainly of your latest ones, and hopefully the previous ones) or ask if your surgery puts test results on-line and how to register for this option. It is very important you know where you are and how much work you have to do. A print out will also tell you how your other markers are doing - cholesterol, liver and kidney functions etc. All these are just as important to us as diabetics as our blood glucose levels.

Good luck, and hopefully your levels will settle and then drop.
 
Hi I really think there is too much going on in a short space of time to really be clear what is affecting your diabetes. Back at work, back on bike and new medication will have an impact on stress, food and which in turn would impact on on blood glucose.

Give yourself some time to settle into the changes and I am sure you will have this back under control very soon.
 
As it appears to me, getting back into a fitter style of life, your body may be rebelling, not happy with the new regime. Give it time to settle and become familiar with this new process. I may be wrong, but try to continue as you are. Don't surrender too easily, you can do this. We are all behind you. Keep us inforned of your progress. Good luck on your journey!!!
 
@Brownian_Motion

Hello and welcome to the Forum :) Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you need to and someone will be able to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 245,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:
  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a free 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. They're all free.
  • Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  • Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children
 
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