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Metformin and low carbing , ketosis..

Discussion in 'Metformin/Biguanides' started by Sutherlandlass, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. Sutherlandlass

    Sutherlandlass Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi folks, I hope someone can clarify something for me please? I am on my second month of metformin, the first was called Gluciet sr, which mentioned nothing about ketosis itself, only ketoacidosis. Is this completely different from ketosis? The current prescription came and it's a metformin called metabet sr. I take the same dose just one 500mg tablet each day with or after my evening meal. The leaflet in this one says, do not take metabet sr if you have ketosis?! I am low carbing, and getting good by results, I drink plenty of water... Does anyone know if this "is" safe or not? I have a telephone consultation booked with my gp, but he doesn't seem to have as much knowledge as you folks on here sometimes! I don't want to be causing injury to myself!! Looking forward to hearing from you folks.. Many thanks, feeling really anxious about this!
     
  2. TorqPenderloin

    TorqPenderloin Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Probably should have done some basic research before jumping into all of this. These are things you should know beforehand so you don't worry yourself like you're doing now.

    Nonetheless, to answer your question nutritional ketosis and DKA (ketoacidosis) are completely different situations caused by completely different circumstances.

    Nutritional ketosis essentially means your body transitions into a state where it gets more energy from fat (ketones) rather than glucose. Most people are in glycolysis which means they get more energy from glucose.

    Ketoacidosis is essentially a condition where the pH of your blood becomes so acidic that you can basically poison yourself into a coma. You're talking about a situation with extremely high blood sugar levels (usually 30+) and ketone levels 10-20x higher than nutritional ketosis. A similar condition more common in people with type 2 (usually older and have some sort of sickness) is known as HONK(I forget what the acronym stands for off the top of my head). In that instance, people can have blood sugar levels higher than 50 mmol/l (not a typo).

    In short, keep your blood sugar levels in check, make sure you're administering your insulin properly (if you are on insulin), and common sense should dictate whether or not you need to worry.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Sutherlandlass

    Sutherlandlass Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @TorqPenderloin.. That's quite a relief. Very thankfully, I am not on insulin. I am managing to keep my bg between 5.9 and 6.8 each day, all thanks to great advice on this forum, and from kind and helpful folks like yourself. I am very grateful.. and so relieved to be able to ask questions on here. Many thanks again :)
     
  4. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    To reassure you further: I'm type 2 on 100mg metformin - also Metabet SR (for over 18 months), and I have eaten a low carb ketogenic diet without any problems for about 2 years now. My ketone levels go nowhwere near danger levels, and under normal circumstances type 2s on oral medication shouldn't ever suffer from ketoacidosis as (and I'm open to correction here) it's a combination of high ketone levels plus severe lack of insulin that cause it - and that lack is something we definitely don't have!

    As @TorqPenderloin says ketosis and ketoacidosis are quite different, and there seems to be a lot of confusion over the two even in the medical (and pharmaceutical) professions, and the Metabet information leaflet definitely contains incorrect information/advice on this!

    Robbity
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Sutherlandlass

    Sutherlandlass Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Robbity Really appreciate your friendly advice, many thanks :)
     
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  6. Sutherlandlass

    Sutherlandlass Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Robbity how do you check your keytone levels please?
     
  7. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    I use a Ketonix, which as a sort of breathalyser gadget that tests for ketones in your breath - and is quite accurate. It's fairly expensive to buy but is a one-off purchase. Its creator is an Swedish epileptic (ketogenic diets are also helpful for epileptics too) and it's available from his Ketonix.com website, and apparently also now from amazon.co.uk too - but is a posher model at a lot more now than I originally paid for mine!

    However, you can get a some idea whether you're in ketosis by using Ketostix - strips which test for waste ketones in your wee. They're available from Amazon (and probably ebay) on line for around £6.00, or from chemists. Nice and cheap (some people cut the strips in half) but slightly messy to use.:D:eek:

    Robbity
     
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  8. Sutherlandlass

    Sutherlandlass Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Robbity thanks for the info, I shall have a see look at these!! :)
     
  9. Sutherlandlass

    Sutherlandlass Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Robbity thanks for the info, I shall have a see look at these!! :)
     
  10. PatsyB

    PatsyB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    will check the site out and think about getting one of these ...thankyou
     
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  11. TorqPenderloin

    TorqPenderloin Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    You have to also realize that even if a doctor does understand the difference that doesn't mean the patient will comprehend the explanation.

    Furthermore, a pharmaceutical company has to consider their liability so they're never going to take the time to explain the two either and will make generalized statements like those you found.

    Sometimes it's just safer to tell someone to avoid ketosis altogether even though that may not always be the correct advice.
     
  12. Shaydollar811

    Shaydollar811 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is great advice from everyone Thank you all God Bless....
     
  13. Shaydollar811

    Shaydollar811 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I was recently diagnosed my doctor gave me metformin and said he will see me in 4 weeks . He only told me my blood surgar was elevated been very drpressed and crying everyday since can someone shed some light for me Thanks
     
  14. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

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    I am on 4x500 mg/day (2 grams) and I was routinely getting readings above 33 mmol/L where my meter lit up like a Chrismas tree and 'shouted KETONES' at me. As a T2 I survived these high levels for some time, but it was a wake up call for me. I have since reduced my bgl down to much the same as you are now, and did this mainly through LCHF diet. I have Ketostix to measure ketones, and the indicator turns a mild purple to show low presence of dietary ketones only. It is not a numeric value, but my meter can take different strips that measure ketones more accurately if I need to. However, I am now sure I am still producing my own insulin as necessary, so I do not fear ketoacidosis. I too am now clear of the danger zone while i munch low carbs.
     
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