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Metformin - should I or shouldn't I?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by TooManyCrisps, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. TooManyCrisps

    TooManyCrisps Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @liam1955, I'm still considering it. I guess I'm reluctant because, to me, it feels like "giving in" to the disease. That does not mean that I think people who have chosen to use it are somehow giving in, it's just me, if that makes any sense. As I said upthread, I am a bit of a control freak and hate taking medication unless there is a very good reason. I just am not sure there's enough reason if I can get my HBA1C reading lower myself. But I do appreciate everyone's views on the subject, which is why I posed the question.
     
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  2. Liam1955

    Liam1955 Type 2 · Master

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    @TooManyCrisps - I understand. And that's sensible to gather as much information. You will make the right decision.:)
     
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  3. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    @TooManyCrisps I don't think your attitude is freakish in any way I just think that having diabetes is an important enough reason to take medication as anything that can help improve your situation is worth trying some times I look at the list of meds I am taking and wonder what am I doing then I remember the absolute hell I went through before I had the meds and I know my life would be pretty ****** with out them even though one of them has made me diabetic.

    But the decision is yours and yours alone so you must do what you think is best for you and then live with the consequences of your decision all the best John.
     
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  4. TooManyCrisps

    TooManyCrisps Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    thank you @JohnEGreen. I think there's a bit of me which wants to stubbornly do it myself, but I also appreciate that if in the long term there are benefits to taking Metformin then I should do so. I read on lots of these forums that people have lowered their HBA1C and been able to cut down/stop taking Metformin, so then I think that it is strange to get my HBA1C reading down (I appreciate it's still too high, but I'm working on it!) and then start taking medication. I'm also worried about the side effects which people keep talking about. I work full time and am always in meetings, so am concerned that the side effects aren't really compatible with that!
     
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  5. Lindy1706

    Lindy1706 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @TooManyCrisps, its a tough one isn't it. I was prescribed 2000mg Metformin when I was Diagnosed, I asked if I could try to get my level down by diet and excercise but was told that "If I had not been off the scale the answer would have been yes".

    Well by the time I got my meter tested and filled my prescription I was no longer off the scale so put them in the bathroom cabinet where they remain.

    My average BG reading this week was 5.9.

    Like you I have a job where the side effects (And I do know that some people do not get them) would be devastating, they would also curtail me doing things like long walks, swimming, Aqua Classes and the gym which I think all assist in my health.

    I am due to go back to GP for another HbA1c test in mid June, I will see where I am then And if he still wants me to take them then we can have a rational information based Discussion about why he thinks they will be of value to me.....as opposed to practice nurse telling me this was the first step on my road to Insulin And amputation And immediately getting my "****** that" reaction.
     
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  6. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    You do not know if you will be affected by the side effects unless you actually try the medication if you find the effects intolerable then you can simply stop taking them I did have some problems at first but found them manageable.
     
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  7. conifers

    conifers Prediabetes · Member

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    There are natural products that are clinically proven that will do the same job as metoformin and definitely no side effects..i don't understand why doctors don't offer alternatives that are clinically proven and medically endorsed..i was on statins..i am pre diabetic/type 2...now on no medication..blood sugars and cholesterol within normal limits ...please do your research before opting for first and only option..i fear GP 's are not generally trained that way
     
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  8. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Is this supposed to be taken seriously? It comes across like a conspiracy theorist's blog. I found the same sort of c**p that my kids send me on FB from time to time.
    Sorry, but I would not recommend this video. It dredges up the same old 'us and them' claims without really nailing things down to a solid argument. I am left asking WHY?

    ETA: The following link is to a recent (2012) meta study that re examines previous work on Metformin. It is not light reading, but the conclusions are clear, and the claims are not exaggerated (but they do mention the other report's claims). This study does not try to link up with mortality rates, so is not so in-yer-face sensationalist, but they do discuss adverse effects noted.
    http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/35/2/446.full.pdf
     
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    #28 Oldvatr, Apr 10, 2016 at 4:28 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2016
  9. Lindy1706

    Lindy1706 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I will see what my next HbA1c is in June And take it from there. My gut says if I can do this without meds then best to save them until the time that I can't.
     
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  10. conifers

    conifers Prediabetes · Member

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    Personally i wish my doctor was more vociferous with my diabetes..i feel by the time you ate diagnosed a lot of damage is done..i was fighting diabetes for more than 12 years before i realised..
     
  11. TooManyCrisps

    TooManyCrisps Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @lindy 1706, you sound as though you have a very similar outlook to me. Hopefully your next HBA1C test will show that you're doing the right thing.
     
  12. conifers

    conifers Prediabetes · Member

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    Go for it..there are clinically proven,medically endorsed natural products that will do the same job as metoformin..Most doctors are not trained that way or because of costs are not available on the NHS.Absolutely no side effects!
     
  13. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Absolutely no side effects? I have yet to find a natural product that reduces bgl without some drawback somewhere. AND, I have not found clinical trials that support the anecdotal evidence that wxyz product is actually clinically effective. If you have such evidence, please post it here, since there are many here searching for this Holy Grail.

    The only one I do know about is French Lily, otherwise known as Goats Rue, or Glucophage. It is the main active ingredient of Metformin. it is an old folk remedy. but it does have some documented side effects that would preclude it from your list.
     
  14. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    See, the problem with the mockery you show in your first paragraph, is that you haven't addressed the OP's concerns, and you have failed to appreciate the real value of the video.
    - it is far more accessible than the paper you quoted
    - it shows that there are widespread misconceptions about Metformin amongst the people who prescribe it
    - plus (I believe) its information is based on a analysis with a far more stringent selection process than the one in your paper, permitting a different focus (I haven't gone back and checked this last point, because... well, I actually lost interest in discussing this with you when I saw your comments in your first paragraph - which I dismiss as absurd.)

    I agree that the ref you give is a useful paper (and may well start quoting it :D) but really, @Oldvatr there is a bigger picture than just number crunching.
     
  15. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Honestly, I don't think the video answers the OP either. It will just frighten and confuse people who are not diabetes savvy into stopping medication because this one study shows that the other orals are useless and increase the risk of death. One of the drugs described has been banned for many years now (I know coz I was on it) He talks about T2 being lifestyle problem (a minefield here) and I think his closing slides have drawn wrong conclusions, but cannot put my finger on it even after my 3rd viewing.

    if I was a Newbie, I think this video would have put me off taking medication even Met, and gone for diet alone. I do not think this video provides a balanced overview, and is quite negative.
     
  16. conifers

    conifers Prediabetes · Member

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    Thank you for your response.Very happy to share this information.Are you familiar with The Physicians Desk Reference..this is the American version of our BNF..British National Formulary..the doctors reference guide.TO have a product in there it has to be clinically proven etc.The products are there and also available in the UK.Its for pre diabetics,borderline diabetics and Type 2.Absolutely no downside..it will also lower your cholesterol..and triglycerides and lose weight.You can take it with your medication and with your doctors supervision you can come off prescribed medication.Please see my post,very happy even if a few people listen.Sounds too good to believe....here are some of the references.:FREED S.JOFF.E D(2009)THE CLINICAL IMPACT OF FIBRE SUPPLEMENTATION FOR THE REDUCTION OF POSTPRANDIALBLOOD GLUCOSE AND RISK REDUCTION FROM DIABETES TYPE2...VERDEGEM P. FREED S.JOFFE D.THE OMPACT OF FROBRE SUPPLEMENTATION FOR THE REDUCTION OF POST PRANDIALBLOOD GLUCOSE AND RISKS REDUCTION OF COMPLICATIONS OF TYPE 2 DIABETES IN 65 SCIENTIFIC SESSION AMERICAN DIABETES ASSOCIATION 2005.SAN DIEGO,CA ,USA.This would be a start to show you the evidence.Studies have been taken in Sydney University which i am told is the Mecca of the Glycemic index and the Philippines...
    I was very sceptical like you.I look my statins like a good boy from my GP...no alternatives was ever discussed apart from diet ,exercise and a risk profile.Infact i pushed for a prescription as a family friend was doing some research for a big drug company and said the benefits far outweigh the risks...so i took ot without question.So i can understand people's unquestioning approach to prescribed medication.I'm new to the site so not sure whats permitted! Can i message you privately and you can be the judge once you have more information.My experience can be construed as subjective but thousands are been helped all over the world..i was lucky i came across this product by chance.All my blood results are available for perusal.
     
  17. conifers

    conifers Prediabetes · Member

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    Hi Liam..you are spot on not to religiously accept prescribed medication.I am pre diabetic/Type2 but on no medication.My blood sugars are within normal limits and no side effects using an all natural product that has been clinically proven.See my post...dont take the metoformin without exploring other all natural solutions that will do the same job as metoformin but with no side effects...good luck
     
  18. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Unable to send you a pm. Think you need to have more messages posted in the forum before that can happen

    I have heard of using fibre to reduce cholesterol. It also has an effect in reducing bgl in two ways
    1) Lowering the GI of a food to flatten out a bgl spike post prandial. In fact it lowers the height of the spike by stretching it out for longer, but actually the total glucose is much the same. Thus by testing at 2 hr pp, then fibre may delay the spike beond the 2 hr sample (which reads low) but pops up, say, at the 2.5 hr time as a high This is not quite as good as a Metformin replacement which actually reduces the glucose going into the blood, and it explains why many monitoring their diet (e.g. Atkins) have apparent low bgl averages, but a higher than expected HbA1c by not recording the delayed spikes, There are examples on the forum of this where CGM monitors are used to continuously record all levels and these show the bumps still occur,

    Fibre is not good news for T1D or T2D insulin controlled because the delayed digestion is difficult to adjust their insulin dosage for a meal. This can possibly lead to hypo's.

    2) faster digestive transit time, which interrupts the metabolism such that our bodies miss the proteins, which are the last to be converted into glucose. It also binds to dietary fat in the gut, reducing cholesterol and excreting it instead of using it. I am on a ketogenic (fat burning) diet, so dropping cholesterol is actually potentially harmful to me, as are statins which I have dropped.

    There are many on this forum for whom fibre is harmful due to other medical conditions, so they would not be safe to use fibre as a replacement for Metformin.
     
  19. britishpub

    britishpub Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    What is this Metoformin you are advising people not to take ?

    I've never heard of it.
     
  20. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Recent evidence seems to suggest that even Prediabetes causes nerve damage so we may have to take some medication if we can't get our Hba1c below 42.
    My Hba1c was 44 on last test, controlled by LCHF.
    Derek
     
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