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Metformin v. Insulin

D

Daniel95503

Member
Messages
21
Location
California, US
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi. I haven't posted for awhile but have a question. Is insulin better on liver and kidneys than metformin? I am thinking of making the change and have an appt with my doc next week. I have been pretty much self medicating with this new doc and she has no issues giving me what I want. I would like t do nighttime insulin and for the moment keep with the daytime met as I am getting concerned what the chemicals are doing to my organs. Any thoughts?

BTW, I trust U.K. Better than US. Just trying to get some knowledge on insuin before I make the switch
 
I came back to this 3 times because I wasn,t I had to think of my reply.
The first thing I thought of, I have never heard of a patient asking their doctor for drug and them agreeing. If my gp gave me what I asked for, then I would be very worried. To me he/she is not a good gp.
My second is, why ever would you want to go onto insulin.
Personally I would not take insulin unless I was type 1.
As I am type 2, I would take insulin as a very last resort and that will only be on the advice of my gp because diabetic meds have not worked
 
I would only take insuline as type 2 if I had no other choice .......................... on the other hand metformine do have some sideeffects some good and some bad... on long term use is seems to be able to destroy the bodies ability to take up vitamine B12 and I think that is a disaster... even though one can have the vitamin in injections instead...
metformine is washed out by the kidneys but do not as far as I am informed damage the kidneys in it self... maybe when kidneys are damaged it is another matter, but kidneys are more likely to be damaged because people do not get their blood glucose down like almost normal mostly all the time, which ought be the goal for as many diabetics as possible.. especially type 2 who can go lower than type 1 when not using insulin..
Insulin is something that is supposed to be in ones body, but only in the adequate amounts and is not something one should wish to add in any other amounts, and as type 2 diabetics usually/ initially has 5-7 times the amount of insuline in their bodies than do people who are not diabetic... why then want to get on insuline as soon as possible... if the pancreas stops to function it is another matter, then one has to get insuline and that happens to many after many years of diabetes type 2 and to a few unlucky sooner than later...
 
Daniel95503 said:
Hi. I haven't posted for awhile but have a question. Is insulin better on liver and kidneys than metformin? I am thinking of making the change and have an appt with my doc next week. I have been pretty much self medicating with this new doc and she has no issues giving me what I want. I would like t do nighttime insulin and for the moment keep with the daytime met as I am getting concerned what the chemicals are doing to my organs. Any thoughts?

BTW, I trust U.K. Better than US. Just trying to get some knowledge on insuin before I make the switch
Click to expand...

Hi,
Is there a reason why your GP is prepared to put you on insulin rather than metformin, for example do you have very high Blood sugars ?
If your having side effects on the normal Metformin then I would suggest you ask to go onto slow release Metformin instead and maybe increase the dose.
Insulin should only be used; in my understanding; if you are type 1 diabetic where you body has stopped producing insulin altogether or if you cant control BS and they are extremely high as a type 2. There are several other diabetic tablets you can try first before doing the drastic measures of starting insulin, Look them up on this website. The more knowledge you have before seeing Gp can only be a good thing.
I believe once your on insulin then its difficult to go back to just tablets. Also consider, that on metformin you are unlikely to have a hypo, but on everything else it can become a daily reality.
Then you can have even more problems.
Have you thought of staying on Metformin, testing blood sugars regularly and trying the Low Carb High Fat diet which is advocated here very strongly.
Re-read everything on this website again so you can make an informed decision. If you have doubts over the advise your Gp is giving, ask to have a second opinion by a second Gp maybe with more experience everyone has the right to do that, if possible do it before your actual appointment this week, maybe make an urgent appointment tomorrow? Or go and see your Diabetic health care team they might be able to enlighten you on things.
Good luck.
Maggie/Magpie
 
The UK has a very different medication culture than the US, and most NHS UK docs are VERY unimpressed with their patients dictating treatment. In the UK there is a clear progression of treatment for T 2s, taken from national guidelines, starting with diet and exercise, progressing through a number of drugs (with alternatives if a drug is ineffective or not tolerated by the patient), with insulin as the final option, with or without additional drugs.

Why do you think insulin is the most appropriate next step for you?
And what organ damage do you think Metformin may be causing? Metformin is often referred to as the best first option - best tolerated, most universally effective, with protective effects on the heart. It has been a while since I read the studies, so that is just an approximate description. Last time I looked, metformin was only not advised for people with moderate to severe kidney disease.

And can I ask why you think Metformin is a Daytime drug? My understanding is that Metformin is a background drug, taking several weeks to build to full effectiveness, with less effect on individual meal glucose peaks than is often assumed.

If you have other evidence, showing I am wrong, then I would be glad of a corrective refresher :)

Have you considered dietary control? Of course you may be doing this already, but i have often read that T2 blood glucose control is 80% diet, with exercise and drugs making up the remaining 20%.
 
I agree with Brunneria, in comparision with other drugs Metformin, if well tolerated has a good dose of advantages. It's cheap, doesn't pose the risk of hypos and seems to be effective to avoid colon cancer. If the problem is B12, I think that eating more liver and onions (also known as fegato alla vicentina) could be a really tasty method to solve it :-)
 
MikeTurin said:
I agree with Brunneria, in comparision with other drugs Metformin, if well tolerated has a good dose of advantages. It's cheap, doesn't pose the risk of hypos and seems to be effective to avoid colon cancer. If the problem is B12, I think that eating more liver and onions (also known as fegato alla vicentina) could be a really tasty method to solve it :)
Click to expand...

no the vitamin B12 uptake cells seems to be hindrede in taking up the vitamin by long term metformin use so it is not just about how much you get it is a mater if you can uptake it in High enough dose by your self and therefore have to get injections.

http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/blog/metformin-and-risk-for-vitamin-b12-deficiency/
 
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I would not go on insulin (or any other drug that stimulates the pancreas to produce more insulin) without first having my endogenous insulin production tested via a c-peptide test. Contrary to medical myth, most Type 2's are producing way too much insulin, not too little, so adding extra is a recipe for metabolic disaster and almost guaranteed weight gain. I suggest you watch the following video:

 
Agree about as strongly as can be agreed with what @Indy51 has said. I have had a c-peptide, several of them over the last year, and this is certainly the case with me.
 
I guess it's a case of understanding what metformin and insulin do.

In the case of metformin, it is still not entirely clear how it works, but it appears to mimic the action of a hormone within the liver that suppresses the release of glucose into the blood. Consequently blood glucose levels can be maintained at a slightly lower level.

Insulin (and certainly too much circulating insulin) is undesirable - hyperinsulinemia is linked with a whole host of nasties including cancer and heart disease. As somebody with type 2 diabetes, it could be that you already have an elevated amount of insulin circulating (due to insulin resistance), or it could be that your pancreas is no longer producing sufficient insulin (in which case injecting additional insulin could be beneficial). Having a c-peptide test would be advisable before making a decision.

You do have the option to keep going down a path of adding more layers of treatment, but they will only be treating the symptom and not the cause. I would highly recommend taking a look at the research around fasting and the low carb approach suggested by Dr Fung. According to his theory it should be possible to 're-boot' the body's insulin sensitivity. Certainly fasting will clear fat from the liver (which means it will begin working effectively again).
Going without food for a number of days may seem like a pretty drastic measure, but it may be worth considering as a kick start to a low carb lifestyle of good health. Wouldn't it be fantastic to be in a position to instead consider what treatment you no longer need:)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/10/16/complete-guide-fasting.aspx
 
ally1 said:
I came back to this 3 times because I wasn,t I had to think of my reply.
The first thing I thought of, I have never heard of a patient asking their doctor for drug and them agreeing. If my gp gave me what I asked for, then I would be very worried. To me he/she is not a good gp.
My second is, why ever would you want to go onto insulin.
Personally I would not take insulin unless I was type 1.
As I am type 2, I would take insulin as a very last resort and that will only be on the advice of my gp because diabetic meds have not worked
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. i guess my comment that i get what i want from my doc was a bit vague. i only meant that if i need a different dosage of met, she will let me do that as i am well controlled, i honestly do not think she is a good diabetic gp, but where i live it is near impossible to get a new doc. i was on waiting list for 6 months just to into Open Door Clinic as my last doc was atrocious. i have been on my current dosage of 750 mg twice daily for the better part of this year. i am only asking about insulin because like i said, i am concerned with the chemicals it may be loading up my organs with. From reading on here it seems everyone will only do insulin as a last result, and i totally trust this site. i really do appreciate all the answers and replies. i have friends who have type 2 and chose insulin over pills saying it was easier once you got everything right. i am very good at managing my bc with pills, and i am way better now than i was a year ago. just trying to get opinions :)
 
Brunneria said:
The UK has a very different medication culture than the US, and most NHS UK docs are VERY unimpressed with their patients dictating treatment. In the UK there is a clear progression of treatment for T 2s, taken from national guidelines, starting with diet and exercise, progressing through a number of drugs (with alternatives if a drug is ineffective or not tolerated by the patient), with insulin as the final option, with or without additional drugs.

Why do you think insulin is the most appropriate next step for you?
And what organ damage do you think Metformin may be causing? Metformin is often referred to as the best first option - best tolerated, most universally effective, with protective effects on the heart. It has been a while since I read the studies, so that is just an approximate description. Last time I looked, metformin was only not advised for people with moderate to severe kidney disease.

And can I ask why you think Metformin is a Daytime drug? My understanding is that Metformin is a background drug, taking several weeks to build to full effectiveness, with less effect on individual meal glucose peaks than is often assumed.

If you have other evidence, showing I am wrong, then I would be glad of a corrective refresher :)

Have you considered dietary control? Of course you may be doing this already, but i have often read that T2 blood glucose control is 80% diet, with exercise and drugs making up the remaining 20%.
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply. i dont really dictate, i merely say that i need a higher or lower dose. now that i am under control its really not an issue. i dont think met is a daytime drug, i was not aware of the good things it does as you mentioned. thanks again :)
 
Metformin saved my pancreas 10 years ago and helped me lose 30 kg it also feels when I'm on it I don't have to be so strict with my diet.let's not forget it activates ampk in the body and some docs supporting longevity are giving it to some patients who are not diabetic for the benefits.I am thinking of reducing coming off since my hba1c is 5.4 so don't know.
 
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ally1 said:
I came back to this 3 times because I wasn,t I had to think of my reply.
The first thing I thought of, I have never heard of a patient asking their doctor for drug and them agreeing. If my gp gave me what I asked for, then I would be very worried. To me he/she is not a good gp.
My second is, why ever would you want to go onto insulin.
Personally I would not take insulin unless I was type 1.
As I am type 2, I would take insulin as a very last resort and that will only be on the advice of my gp because diabetic meds have not worked
Click to expand...
Hi, sorry for butting in, but can I ask how you get on with the Victoza?
 
My GP has been known to give me a drug I have asked for but ONLY after we have discussed it and he has determined that it is a good course for me to try. He will look it up if he does not know it and really they can't keep up with all the new things coming out, there simply isn't time. He would never just say OK here ya go.
 
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