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Militant Low Carbing & Body Shaming - What's Your View?

JohnEGreen said:
Well I thought they where good reasons at the time but now I've calmed down I'm sure they were, but my reaction to a frustrating situation could have been more reasonable.
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But did you body shame anyone? ;)
 
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If only. Though some while ago my GP did catch me sneaking a rather furtive look at his rather rotund figure, when he said to me even though I had lost a huge amount of weight that if anything I was still slightly over weight and he got all defensive saying I probably eat less than you john my reply I somehow don't think so doctor.

I laughed but to myself.
 
JohnEGreen said:
If only. Though some while ago my GP did catch me sneaking a rather furtive look at his rather rotund figure, when he said to me even though I had lost a huge amount of weight that if anything I was still slightly over weight and he got all defensive saying I probably eat less than you john my reply I somehow don't think so doctor.

I laughed but to myself.
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See we all do it really... some are just more open about it than others... which was kind of my point at the start of this thread...
 
zand said:
Not sure I really want to get into a fight with these guys, but here goes.

The dietary advice given by many (not all) dieticians to T2s is plainly wrong. I see no problem in shaming them for the poor advice that they give. The advice is harmful to T2s. T2s are carb intolerant and as such should limit the amount of carbs they have, whether this is on a low cal, low carb, Mediterranean diet or any other diet is up to the individual to choose, but the 'eat wholemeal carbs with every meal' mantra is wrong for T2s who are trying to control their diabetes with diet.

I do however have a massive problem with body shaming. I am a low carber and have been since before diagnosis. I am still seriously obese. There are many reasons why people are fat and they are not all down to diet. I am working through my own reasons one by one, but the process takes a very long time.

Anyone looking at me would think that low carb doesn't work because I still have a lot of weight to lose. (I have lost around 3 stones and have kept that off). A pharmacist once sneered at me re low carbing because I am still fat. Why should I be body shamed when I am doing everything I can to help myself? Similarly, the dieticians' advice is bad for T2s but why should they be judged on how they themselves look? There may be other reason why they themselves are a bit overweight. Maybe they actually like the way they look! The best swimming teacher my sons had couldn't swim himself, it didn't stop him helping others to learn. Similarly I feel I have helped others to get on the right track for weight loss even though I haven't managed it for myself.

Body shaming is so wrong but I feel it exists because there is so much emphasis put on those who have 'the perfect body'. We need to stop thinking about how folks look altogether and see them for who they really are. Commenting on how people look, whether beautiful or ugly, fat or slim is just not on and is a very shallow way of looking at them which says more about the person doing the shaming than the shamed.

Maybe Zoe Harcombe, Aseem Malhotra and Tim Noakes all have better things to do than to get into arguments re body shaming?
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I am with you Zand I am the same Heavy obese have kept four stone off but as I am not very mobile it is taking a long time to lose but I keep going like you. No one has the right to judge anyone else. I have only just come across these posts so don't know all the details, but from what I read here I am not going to read it but agree with all your comments.. X
 
I bought zoe harcombes book a few years ago and have started to re read it

she says is ok to eat cereal?!?

to me - her book is the same as food combining back in the 1980's?

I discounted her, until I recently saw her in a press conference/photo thing will dr Jason fung!?

who is right?
 
ROSIE1988 said:
I bought zoe harcombes book a few years ago and have started to re read it

she says is ok to eat cereal?!?

to me - her book is the same as food combining back in the 1980's?

I discounted her, until I recently saw her in a press conference/photo thing will dr Jason fung!?

who is right?
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Was it a book about weight loss or a book about Type 2 diabetes? They're two completely different things IMO.
 
This is interesting. The advice the dietitians should give people with diabetes is a policy issue.

Commenting on how people look is a personal insult, in this case made about people, because someone doesn't like the policy of the group they belong to, on diet advice.

So the original attacks uses personal insults to attack the BDA over policy. I don't think that is right, but..............................

there is an issue over how decisions about the policy are made, and the opportunities for feedback. If there are not sufficient opportunities for feedback, then people will get annoyed, and turn to personal insults, in some cases.

That there are people who are sufficiently annoyed with dietitians in a professional capacity, to defend personal attacks on them, suggests that there is considerable dissatisfaction with their policy on diet advice.

There will always be a few people, at the margins, who will be unhappy, but if this dissatisfaction extends beyond the margins, that would indicate that there is a problem.

I think this tweet, problematic though it is, reveals a problem, that needs addressing. I'm not quite sure what the problem is, or the extent of it, but on this forum there are many people who are happy with their doctors, and the advice given, but a considerable number who aren't. How is that going to be addressed? I'm not sure it is addressed by personal insults, but neither is it addressed by defensive responses that push people who make legitimate criticisms away.
 
bulkbiker said:
See we all do it really... some are just more open about it than others... which was kind of my point at the start of this thread...
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On TV, chef James Martin in America shown last night. He got his floor manager to walk sideways in front of camera to show a true 'belly'. I laughed to myself as he has turned 'porky' himself of late. Kettle calling pot black, me thinks!
Some people are size blind, especially about themselves. Even very slim people.
The problem is....... we cannot judge what is healthy by looking at the cover.
Maybe the nhs should learn a policy of "don't judge the book by its cover"?
 
My only concern doing bariatric surgery at Sunderland is the head dietician 2yrs ago was anti-low carb.
I'm hoping she's mellowed but she does have none diabetics too to advise. All morbidly obese her none diabetics. Some have risk of prediabetics. Not all.
 
People are far too sensitive nowadays. When I was young I was often called a long streak of wee because I was slim and tall.
There are worse things to live with it didnt bother me much.

If the dieticians can't see their policies don't work they must be lacking in insight of the true situation.
If someone pointed that out to me I would review my science base and modify my policy.

Don't let them off the hook because you don't want the poor's dears upset, just think of the number of limbs they have caused to have hacked off.
No wonder some get angry and use the wrong methods to bring about change.
D.
 
Remember too that Eddie has slammed people like Marty Kendall for his work on the insulin index even though other prominent LCHFers praise the guy. He doesn't always get it right.

He praised beautiful Halle Berry for her 'five diet' even though it wouldn't suit a lot of us to have 5 meals a day with 5 ingredients in each. I am sure if a plain woman had devised that diet he would have slated it. Eddie judges people on how they look, that is wrong, it goes beyond fat shaming in his case and that's why I think he weakened his argument by using those tactics.

Yes a lot of us are talking about it and that is good, but the people we need to listen are the dietitians, I wouldn't listen to someone throwing childish personal insults at me, so why would they?
 
bulkbiker said:
See we all do it really... some are just more open about it than others... which was kind of my point at the start of this thread...
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That's because we are all human and tend to make comparisons. But professionals in a health care environment should not do it it can lead to erroneous conclusions and errors in diagnosis by clinicians.

Apart from the moral aspect.
 
JohnEGreen said:
That's because we are all human and tend to make comparisons. But professionals in a health care environment should not do it it can lead to erroneous conclusions and errors in diagnosis by clinicians.

Apart from the moral aspect.
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Yet we hear evidence of it happening all the time from reports here..
 
ROSIE1988 said:
I bought zoe harcombes book a few years ago and have started to re read it

she says is ok to eat cereal?!?

to me - her book is the same as food combining back in the 1980's?

I discounted her, until I recently saw her in a press conference/photo thing will dr Jason fung!?

who is right?
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People are allowed to change their views after educating themselves more as well.
It is unfortunate when their old views are in print but look at Tim Noakes.. he was filmed tearing pages out of his best selling book and apologising for the advice he gave in the past.

edit to add if only more scientists had the gumption to do that what a better place the world would be.
 
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You raise some interesting issues Bulkbiker.
Re: He who pays the Piper calls the tune!
Scientists are funded in the main by big business in Western democracies, it takes a lot of evidence from independent sources to stop the galloping horse of big pharma and big food having its head.
 
On the topic of big food/pharma and the way they influence clinical practice and trials, I have just listened to a positioning paper re best ways to treat type 2 diabetes which was conducted by the American Diabetes Association and the European Diabetes Association. This is an influential organisation so I guess it must be a target for those who wish to influence clinical practice across the globe.
There were many speakers with conflicts of interest with drug companies and whilst all of them gave lip service to the first line of treatment being diet and lifestyle, the main focus was on which drugs reduce CV and renal complications in type 2 diabetics.
In the nutritional therapies part of the discussion the presenters focussed on the concept of 'food quality' and 'calorie restriction' represented by studies showing the efficacy of meal replacement diets e.g. Jenny Craig (formerly owned by Nestle and now owned by The Castle Group who also own Naked, Atkins and other ;health' brands), Weight Watchers and the Look Ahead (10 year study in which most of the weight lost was regained) and Direct (the Newcastle Diet) all pitted against mere dietary advice at which point the concept of 'reversal was mentioned for the first time, or bariatric surgery. The concept of macro nutrient.g. carb restriction was barely mentioned other than to rule it out in favour of the afore mentioned approaches to weight loss for type 2s.
It seems obvious that there is huge commercial appeal in selling these shakes or packaged meals but its frustrating that the other options are de-emphasised thus pushing LCHF into the fad/crank diet category and I don't think that this is due to lack of evidence.
 
bulkbiker said:
But don't dieticians "judge" people by their looks every single day of their working life?
Isn't that the core of their job?

Edit to add why would anyone be sent to see one otherwise? Do they send TOFI's to a dietician?
Any TOFI"S out there
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No, they weigh them and measure their waists, BGs, and take other measurements. And yes, TOFIs are sent to dieticians. Dieticians also see people with a myriad of other conditions besides diabetes.
 
Tannith said:
No, they weigh them and measure their waists, BGs, and take other measurements. And yes, TOFIs are sent to dieticians. Dieticians also see people with a myriad of other conditions besides diabetes.
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Wonder if they give them all the same advice?
 
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