My diet

TheMillerMan said:

Hello,

I would like help with diet - I have been given conflicting and un-supported instructions.

I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes on New Year's Eve last year, after scoring 58 on the HB scale. I had none of the expected symptoms at all. I was therefore given another blood test two weeks later and came out at 54. That in itself is odd given it is supposed to be an average over three months? The intention was to control by diet.

I also showed high cholesterol and blood pressure. I am overweight but not obese. I am 66, retired since 49 for medical reasons, and feel about 86!

I have completely changed what I eat but of course the pandemic has caused a lot of problems for those confined to barracks by "shielding" (I have PTSD amongst a long list of ailments). I have put some (but not all) weight back on that I managed to shed.

I was recently given another blood test and a different diabetes nurse told me that my reading is now 60 and that I shouldn't be eating what I am eating (I was following a Diabetes UK booklet, as instructed, but eating about half the massive permitted quantity) and that:

• No cereal other than Weetabix, All Bran, Shredded Wheat (all of which I could do without altogether given their lack of taste and wierd texture)
• Nothing with dried friut in it (apparently after it is dried it becomes evil)
• Only half a banana a day (uh?)
• Half a jacket potato in skin on alternate days
• No "pudding" of any sort with meals
• Wholemeal bread only. Previous nurse said seeded was better
• No low sugar marmalade or jam - anything that says "low" is bad.

If I had mentioned anything else I am sure it would have been condemned too.

I am now being put on Metformin.

It was casually mentioned that my cholestol was now normal, and blood pressure was good by my reckoning but bad by theirs - last reading 124/82.

This left me (and my wife) very angry - not helped by the PTSD I'm sure - so I have left it a few days before writing here to calm down.

I would value opinions and guidance on the diet.

John

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Oh ye gods, I'm not surprised you're feeling horrid! Okay, first thing you do, if you haven't already: Get yourself a meter. You're going to get a lot of conflicting advice, and I don't know how comfortable you are taking it from a complete stranger on the internet, but a meter'll always let you know whether what you're eating is agreeing with you. It's got no bias and it's not going to try and sell you anything, it'll just let you know whether you're high, normal or low. Spoiler: The list you just gave us would make the bulk of us gasp in horror, and I don't even want to think about what it's doing to your blood sugars.

The good news being, eggs and bacon are back on the menu, the cereal (ALL cereals, standard porridge etc) are off. So are all fruits, save for berries with either cream or full fat Greek yoghurt, bread's exit too, all kinds.... Believe it or not there's still plenty to eat, and that'd mainly be stuff your nurse would probably be gasping at in horror in return, but.... Trust your meter. Here's a link with some information about T2, "safe" foods and how to test effectively. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/

Oh, and from the sound of it you're probably on a statin? Those can up blood sugars too and have a bunch of unpleasant side effects, just something to look into. Most on here wouldn't take them unless they have a cardiac event in their rearview.

Keep asking questions, and let your meter tell you who's right about what you eat, yeah?
Good luck!
Jo

Listen to your Auntie Jo, she nailed it.

As you have sadly found Diabetes UK hasn't a clue when it comes to diet for diabetes (you couldn't make it up!). That's diabetes.org.uk not this site. You need a low-carb diet, so avoid cereals for breakfast but eggs and bacon is fine. Bananas are a No-No; only have non-tropical fruit. Dried fruit is OK if no sugar has been added. Low-sugar food/drink is OK if it hasn't got one of the weird sugar variants in it or honey or glucose etc. Things like saccharin and so on are generally fine. Avoid starchy veg. Whole grain bread is a bit better than white mainly as it has more fibre but it's still a carb. In general Fats and Proteins are fine.

Get a blood glucose meter and check your blood glucose levels first thing when you wake up in the morning before eating or drinking anything, then again 1 hour and again 2 hours after eating, which will show you how what you ate and drank affected your blood glucose levels.

While you're watching your blood glucose levels, don't forget that what you eat also affects your cholesterol levels and those are just as important as your blood glucose levels. Unfortunately, some foods that help keep blood glucose levels low can spike cholesterol numbers. It's a tricky balancing act. There are home cholesterol meters available but I know nothing about them.

When I was dx'd T2 nearly 3 years ago both my doctor and pharmacist strongly recommended I start taking a statin. I did not go on one at first because I'd heard bad things about them from one friend. I have been on one for well over a year now with no ill effects AFAIK.

I’m just writing to support what others have already said. A low carbohydrate diet (with Metformin) is what got my HbA1c down from 70 to 36 in a matter of months. Here’s a website you will find useful, loads of info available without paying for a subscription:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb

TheMillerMan said:

Thank you, everybody. Plenty there to take on board and follow up. I feel better already!

To answer just one point, I was on statins years ago but stopped taking them. I was put back on them at the same time as the diabetes was diagnosed so there could well be a conflict there.

Best regards to all,

John

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Newly diagnosed diabetics are usually given both metformin and statins. I know it happened with me too, as the GPs work in mysterious ways indeed. (Statins did not agree with my rheumatism, so I wasn't on them long enough to find out how my blood glucose liked them). Just remember, they're optional. I mean, without a previous cardiac event, or say, familial high cholesterol that has you seeing double digits... Might want to try going without and see whether it makes a difference for your blood sugars. But that's entirely your call.

GPs hand out statins like sweets for us diabetics. Make sure you have a lipids 'panel' at your next blood test and only consider the statins if your various ratios aren't good. The Total isn't important but you don't want it below 4mmol with any statins.

Hello and welome,

Fortunately for you you have found this site. Really the advice given by some of the medial profession is enough to make someone weep. No wonder it is considered a progressive disease when people are told to eat stuff that will make it progressive.

Anyway as @JoKalsbeek said above (wisely) get a meter and test. I would be very surprised if your meter indicated that you should eat even half of a banana. Meters can't lie. Most type 2s are told not to use a meter- advice I really can't understand- and as a lawyer wonder whether such advice may be bordering on negligence.

Anyway- welcome ask questions and read around- there are some really awesome people on here and you have already met a few of them

Hello and Welcome! You have been given good advice by the above posters - the nutritional thingy link above is very helpful and low carb is the way forward and is how many of us on here have got our sugar levels down and even in to remission - have a look at my signature for my journey - I had a lot higher numbers than you when I first started out. Keep asking the questions - there are many helpful, knowledgeable people on this site to help you

Fruit is full of fructose and only the liver can process it. Yours is working overtime as it is. Do you like avocado? What about spring onion, radishes, cucumbers. Greek salad with olives and feta. Add walnuts. Dress your salad with a good quality olive oil. Celery adds a nice crunch.

I can only tolerate small amounts of onions and carrots. Don't touch peas or corn.there is still plenty out there.

I think you need to test your blood sugars before and after individual meals and see how they affect you. We are all different. You may find that you can tolerate more than just lettuce and tomato in your salad, I can tolerate a small amount of grated carrot without spiking my blood sugars for example.

TheMillerMan said:

I have been doing some reading up and am still having trouble getting my head round things. At the Dietdoctor page linked to above it says I can eat "vegetables growing above ground" (which rather spoils last night's meal which had a nice range of leek, carrot and parsnip to accompany the quorn escalope) and above it is suggested only "non-tropical fruit" and berries and I am struggling to think quite how I achieve my five-a-day. My typical lunchtime salad is instantly knocked down to lettuice and tomato. I'm not rushing headlong into anything but this has had my wife in tears this morning. Am I reading this right, or am I taking things too literally?

John

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This is why a meter is SO important, what works for me, might not work for you as everyone's body is different. Brassicas (cabbage, cauliflower(good as a rice substitute or mash), Broccoli sprouts,) some people are ok with Swede and Celeriac(both good mash and chips replacements), butternut squash, courgettes (good spaghetti replacement)pumpkin, radish (good roasted as a potato alternative),lettuce, cucumber, celery, peppers, mushrooms(big ones good for replacing the bun for a burger) rhubarb, strawberries, raspberries, blueberries .I can handle a few green beans and tomatoes. There are people who don't eat any fruit & veg on here and follow a carnivore diet (animal products only, meat, fish, dairy, eggs)The "five a day" is just an arbitary figure plucked from the air, different countries have different guidelines, some say 8, others 10, and it should be veg and fruit, not the other way around

TheMillerMan said:

I have been doing some reading up and am still having trouble getting my head round things. At the Dietdoctor page linked to above it says I can eat "vegetables growing above ground" (which rather spoils last night's meal which had a nice range of leek, carrot and parsnip to accompany the quorn escalope) and above it is suggested only "non-tropical fruit" and berries and I am struggling to think quite how I achieve my five-a-day. My typical lunchtime salad is instantly knocked down to lettuice and tomato. I'm not rushing headlong into anything but this has had my wife in tears this morning. Am I reading this right, or am I taking things too literally?

John

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Aw.... I feel both your pain, really, i do.... I did quite a bit of crying too. Sometimes at the supermarket. (Also a good reason to research nutritional info before going to the shops!) Start from scratch. Let go of the whole "five a day" thing, it's not geared to deal with people whose liver and pancreas get a severe beating from fructose and carbs. The EatWell rules don't apply, so let them go. It's next to impossible to follow the EatWell plate, or any diet like Slimming World or other conventional conventional stuff, and mix it with what is actually good for your own body. You have a metabolic condition, you can't process what is advised to the masses. That's why we hammer on getting a meter... We're all different, and you need to know what certain foods do to you. So, that salad... @xfieldok made some really good suggestions. For me, a salad usually consisted out of the obvious leafy greens, but also mayo or apple cider vinegar (most dressings are very sugary), tuna, salmon, (warmed) goat's cheese or somesuch as the basic thing that would be fatty and filling, and avocado, olives, capers, that sort of thing. Sun dried tomatoes are a bit carby, but sometimes I'd have them anyway, as a treat. Regular tomato should be fine. And if avocado is hard to get right (they're either overripe or far from it), just get the cheap frozen stuff. Cubed and just right. The berries (also from the cheap frozen aisle) go well with full fat greek yoghurt, and you can add in some pecans, walnuts, brazil nuts or coconut shavings to make it a little crunchy. Or strawberries with clotted cream, yum! Just forget about counting anything other than carbs for the moment. No keeping track of the five a day, or fats, or whatever, that's all out the window. Keep it simple, for your and your wife's sanity's sake. Just have eggs with bacon or salmon or whatever tickles your fancy. Sometimes I make an omelet with cinnamon, a little erythritol sweetener and maybe some extra dark chocolate drops. Top off with cream, it's heaven. Have salad with all sorts in there, and you can have as much meat, poultry, fish etc as you like. Actually.... I am following a mostly carnivore diet, meaning I eat fish, meat, poultry, dairy and eggs. I should be getting my vitamin c from organ meat, but I couldn't even look at liver after a month, (steak for some reason, and salmon twice a day, isn't a problem somehow), so I have to admit I've started adding vit c supplements to my diet, but.... I should've been able to do it all on what-a-lion-eats only, if it wasn't for my aversion to organ meats, after having a little too much of that. No vegetables in there, no fruits, at all, for now... Because as it turns out, I have a few other food sensitivities to deal with as well, resulting in permeable bowel, in all likelihood. And this diet helped. And yes, I know that extra dark chocolate isn't what a lion'd usually eat, but it would be if they knew what it was, so that's still on my menu too. My blood sugars, you ask? Hovering between 4 and 5, every day, all day. They're better than a non-diabetic friend's who recently got a HbA1c of 38 and was quite pleased with that. (I was horrified). All in all... Wipe the slate clean. Forget everything you think you know. Count carbs, and rely on a meter. Go from there. Don't try to mix diets that are mutually exclusive, because you'll end up being able to eat absolutely nothing. It wasn't until I started eating bacon that the kilo's started going off of me. I mean... I used to weigh well over 102 kilo's. That's when I stepped off the scales for the last time, in tears, and just kept getting bigger... And didn't get back on until my pants were falling off of me and I wanted to know what was going on. I have several conditions that keep me at juuuust slightly overweight, (PCOS, thyroid, probably perimenopause), but lately I've been just under 80 kilo's, and I'm quite happy with my proportions now. I look more like a woman and less like a big round snowball. Being morbidly obese and having my gut crush my lungs every time I tied my shoelaces was humiliating. Not to mention having to special order fat man pants in speciality chubby shops, because the ladies' didn't go up to my size...


It can get better, it's just very confusing right now. I've been where you are, we all have.... Lots of tears shed. But it will get better. Just takes a little while. Print off the Nutritional Thingy for your wife too, it's easier when you're in it together. ( https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ ). It's the most basic I could make it, so it's a good point to start when everything's so overwhelming. Dietdoctor can come later, though I do really recommend the visual guides on the site.... Less talk to absorb when you don't feel like taking in any more. Just a visual to go with. It helps.

TheMillerMan said:

Thank you, everybody. Plenty there to take on board and follow up. I feel better already!

To answer just one point, I was on statins years ago but stopped taking them. I was put back on them at the same time as the diabetes was diagnosed so there could well be a conflict there.

Best regards to all,

John

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Good luck John and your missus!
Here is an excellent book that might take you forward with some recipes too. The foreword is written by Dr David Unwin who is a low carb Gp and has a great record in getting type 2s out of their diabetes and off medications. Metformin isn't bad btw.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Diabetes-Weight-Loss-Cookbook-life-changing-diabetes-ebook/dp/B07LFG5RXY
I'd be asking your diabetes nurse just how many people, by contrast, are successful in reversing their diabetes using the suggested high carb diet!

TheMillerMan said:

I'm sorry, I need to take a breather. Two much is whizzing round my head - not only with this but other things too.

I'll be back in a day or so. Please don't think I'm ungrateful, I really appreciate all your support and help.

John

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You appear to be avoiding meat and fish and eggs.. three things that you can have limitless amounts of?

Take time to breath. It is a lot to get your head around at first. Once the penny drops, it becomes easier. I promise. Come back when you are ready. You will be fine.