New Dr. for me and his take on statins

MikeZ said:

I had to change doctors because my old MD moved into administration. My new doctor acknowledges a possible link between taking statins and the onset of Type 2 but he also said something a little different.

Quick history: 4 years ago I started on a statin and shortly thereafter I was diagnosed Type 2. It can be argued that I might have been headed to Type 2 anyhow but that's not pertinent for this discussion. In any event, after my diagnosis I quit the statin AND lost 45 lbs over the next 12 months. I have never had A1c numbers above "pre-diabetes" levels since. I can't say if my good numbers are because of my weight loss, quitting statins, or both.

I have hereditary high cholesterol but I refuse to take a statin and I explained to my new doctor why. His reply was this: Well, let's say that the statin IS responsible for pushing you over the edge, now that the damage is done, you might as well reap the benefits of having it lower your cholesterol."

Does his reasoning have any merit?

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With that reasoning one has to believe higher cholesterol is a bad thing.

That's mad. Thats so Trumpian!

MikeZ said:

I had to change doctors because my old MD moved into administration. My new doctor acknowledges a possible link between taking statins and the onset of Type 2 but he also said something a little different.

Quick history: 4 years ago I started on a statin and shortly thereafter I was diagnosed Type 2. It can be argued that I might have been headed to Type 2 anyhow but that's not pertinent for this discussion. In any event, after my diagnosis I quit the statin AND lost 45 lbs over the next 12 months. I have never had A1c numbers above "pre-diabetes" levels since. I can't say if my good numbers are because of my weight loss, quitting statins, or both.

I have hereditary high cholesterol but I refuse to take a statin and I explained to my new doctor why. His reply was this: Well, let's say that the statin IS responsible for pushing you over the edge, now that the damage is done, you might as well reap the benefits of having it lower your cholesterol."

Does his reasoning have any merit?

Click to expand...

A statin now would still drive your BS numbers up. But what the heck right, damage done, who cares?! (Insane notion, really! Does he just give up on all the patients that come in there?!)

As always, it's up to you whether or not you take one.

This attitude of, Well, let's say that the statin IS responsible for pushing you over the edge, now that the damage is done, you might as well reap the benefits of having it lower your cholesterol."

That is imo rather callous and unprofessional. To state you know something is doing damage and then recommend you take it is insane.

I think the real question is whether or not high levels are a problem for the individual. Some people who have very high levels, (whether hereditary or not) don't suffer from heart disease and some do. I think you have to realistically look further then just a lipid panel. Some people who have very high levels don't have heart disease as shown in CAC scan results, so it obviously isn't a problem for them. People who have the evidence showing heart disease to certain concerning degree are in a different boat. The simplistic medical view of a one size fits all approach to levels is clearly flawed. This is what I have learned from podcasts by people who really know their stuff... Cummin's, Kendrick, and various others including very experienced cardiologists.

If it were me, I'd do the investigative work, and decide what to do once you have the evidence. Rather then just, oh what the hell, just take the drug and we won't bother looking for evidence of the disease to support the decision for you to take it. Which we haven't been looking for at all anyway. Which seems an all too common approach to a very serous decision.

Great post @Tophat1900

MikeZ said:

I had to change doctors because my old MD moved into administration. My new doctor acknowledges a possible link between taking statins and the onset of Type 2 but he also said something a little different.

Quick history: 4 years ago I started on a statin and shortly thereafter I was diagnosed Type 2. It can be argued that I might have been headed to Type 2 anyhow but that's not pertinent for this discussion. In any event, after my diagnosis I quit the statin AND lost 45 lbs over the next 12 months. I have never had A1c numbers above "pre-diabetes" levels since. I can't say if my good numbers are because of my weight loss, quitting statins, or both.

I have hereditary high cholesterol but I refuse to take a statin and I explained to my new doctor why. His reply was this: Well, let's say that the statin IS responsible for pushing you over the edge, now that the damage is done, you might as well reap the benefits of having it lower your cholesterol."

Does his reasoning have any merit?

Click to expand...

I started taking statins when diagnosed with T2 with an hba1c of 48 which increased to 54 within 6 months. When I came off statins because of side effects within 6 months my hba1c dropped to 43 and has remained at non diabetic levels (between 35 and 37) for approx 6 years. I have now had ‘statin intolerant’ put on my notes because neither myself or the GP wants to take the risk of it happening again. Ultimately it is your decision but, as @Tophat1900 suggests, do your research and decide what YOU want to do.

Daphne917 said:

I have now had ‘statin intolerant’ put on my notes...

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On the subject of cholesterol I asked to have b******* intolerant added to my notes but I’m not sure they’re taking me seriously

Jim Lahey said:

On the subject of cholesterol I asked to have b******* intolerant added to my notes but I’m not sure they’re taking me seriously

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I found it a relief not having the ‘statin’ conversation with my DN this time! However we still had the ‘we like all diabetics to have their cholesterol under 4’. - mine’s currently 5.2. The only time mine has been under 4 is with statins so that ain’t going to happen soon is it!

From the research I have done I glean the following:

1. Diet heart Hypothesis is just that, it is not a fact and was borne out of 7 countries study, demonstrated to be show different results when 14 other countries were graphed.
2. LDL is required for repair and other hormone function.
3. Our bodies make circa 85% of the cholesterol we have, so why would this be trying to harm us.
4. Oxidised / damaged cholesterol is the danger.
5. Possibly small cholesterol particles are a problem, mainly alleviated by LCHF which generally produces fluffy bigger particles.
6. Older people, particularly women seem to have better outcomes with higher cholesterol.
7. There has been alot of cover up of studies that show no benefit.
8. Benefits are shown in relative risk terms, with never a significant result in absolute terms (absolute terms are the common sense numbers that ordinary people expect and understand).
9. Vitamin D is intimately intertwinned with cholesterol, as are reproductive functions.
10. Statins add I believe 5 more days of life under the following conditions:

• A stroke or heart attack has already occurred
• The statin is taken for several years
• A CAC scan is far superior to guessing with statins
• HDL and Triglycerides are weighted as much more significant than LDL in most modern CVD checkers

I would not go anywhere near this money making ..........

Surgeries get a payment for everyone they prescribe Statins.... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/21/gps-paid-handing-statins-puts-patients-review-finds/

I was advised to start statins after years of refusing, due to a bad reaction years ago when I ended walking with sticks. But in a weak moment I agreed. On them for a month, blood sugars went up so did my cholesterol, Hbac1 up to 53 from 43 cholesterol up to 5.9 from 5.3. Went to hospital for check up, gone up to 63. Absolutely devastated, been really strict. Hospital has increased my insulin to 1.5 units for every 10 carbs back to clinic in 2 weeks, with 2 different food diaries . Why don't doctors listen to us, we know our bodies better than they do, especially regarding statins. Feel better now after my rant.

If it is so good to have low cholesterol why is a higher level of LDL associated with living longer? (BMJ Open website article)
If having high cholesterol is so bad - then those with familial hypercholosterol should die young - but I have never seen that reported anywhere.
My own experience of taking statins along with Metformin was just awful, and I have had a long road back with relearning all my songs, but at least the suicidal thoughts went soon after throwing out the tablets.

'The damage has been done so let's just carry on and do more damage.' There is no logic in this at all.

The risk to benefit ratios of all the adverse effects of statin treatment are by now easily identifiable, do your research and btw see a different GP.

MikeZ said:

I had to change doctors because my old MD moved into administration. My new doctor acknowledges a possible link between taking statins and the onset of Type 2 but he also said something a little different.

Quick history: 4 years ago I started on a statin and shortly thereafter I was diagnosed Type 2. It can be argued that I might have been headed to Type 2 anyhow but that's not pertinent for this discussion. In any event, after my diagnosis I quit the statin AND lost 45 lbs over the next 12 months. I have never had A1c numbers above "pre-diabetes" levels since. I can't say if my good numbers are because of my weight loss, quitting statins, or both.

I have hereditary high cholesterol but I refuse to take a statin and I explained to my new doctor why. His reply was this: Well, let's say that the statin IS responsible for pushing you over the edge, now that the damage is done, you might as well reap the benefits of having it lower your cholesterol."

Does his reasoning have any merit?

Click to expand...

What are your chances of having a heart attack? Only you can assess that but if your wrong what happens to your damaged heart or worse?
Myself I'm not taking a statin and hv mild heart disease. I come over as a lowish risk due to a low-mild CAD scan result however I get chest pains which my GP's hv results of its investigation. Even with an invasive angiogram. I was advised to exercise more but I'm limited to basic levelled exercise due to pain and continuing chest pains with palpitations. I'm awaiting an ultrascan to investigate abdominal pains. AGAIN.
IRRESPECTIVE of investigations I'm not well unless I'm in less pain so I can walk, even aided. I know my body needs to be able to move freely but it doesn't and I cannot function so slow to a stop, with young children in my care. So aided and pushed to my limits is sometimes the best I can do. Although this is only approximately 5% of MY old 'normal' capability.
I'm happy not to take stations as I never feel right when I do take them. I feel numb in my forearms and hands, very peculiar.

We are all different so try and reduce your cholesterol down more naturally. Mine is by walking if and when I can.
Find what benefits you but please please don't risk your heart health.
You can live with diabetes but with heart failure too it could get miserable.

jenniferszimaitis said:

I was advised to start statins after years of refusing, due to a bad reaction years ago when I ended walking with sticks. But in a weak moment I agreed. On them for a month, blood sugars went up so did my cholesterol, Hbac1 up to 53 from 43 cholesterol up to 5.9 from 5.3. Went to hospital for check up, gone up to 63. Absolutely devastated, been really strict. Hospital has increased my insulin to 1.5 units for every 10 carbs back to clinic in 2 weeks, with 2 different food diaries . Why don't doctors listen to us, we know our bodies better than they do, especially regarding statins. Feel better now after my rant.

Click to expand...

My hba1c went up from 48 to 54 when I started taking statins but reduced quickly after I stopped taking them due to other side effects.. My GP has now put ‘statin intolerant’ on my notes as we don’t want to take the risk of it happening again.