Newbie in need of help :(.

[Lord Choc Ice]

I have had diabetes type II for over ten years and take Metformin and Gliclazide to control it. However, last week I had a blood test and my glucose level (is that the correct description ?) came back as over 28 :shock: :shock: . I was stunned and shocked...and annoyed. My GP changed my Metformin to 2 BD and Gliclazide to 3 BD to get it down.

However, I'm so stressed about my readings as they fluctuate so much and I hardly eat - seriously. In the morning it can be between 9 and 12 but just now it was 18.5 and I've only had breakfast and taken my medication. Does having meals so far apart influence glucose levels and should I eat 'properly' for example at regular intervals and not hours apart. I'm so stressed I don't want to go on insulin and I have started and exercise routine (regime :thumbdown: ).

 

[Fraddycat]

Hello Lord Choc Ice and welcome to the forum. You are in the right place we will do what we can to help! It would be helpful to know what you eat - what's an average day's food for you? Many of us here have reduced the amount of carbohydrates we eat with each meal. I think Daisy will be along in a minute to give you the advice that is normally given to new members which gives you a bit more info about the role of carbohydrates. Ask loads of questions, we'll help if we can.

Edited to remove repition

 

[Daibell]

Hi. Can I ask how old you are and whether you are overweight?

 

[welsh_kev]

can i ask what bg meter you are using?

kev

 

[daisy1]

Hi Lord Choc Ice and welcome to the forum

This is the information that Fraddycat mentioned, which is the advice we give to new members. I think you will find it helpful. Ask all the questions you like as there is always someone here to help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find well over 30,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes ... rains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips
The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please sign our e-petition for free testing for all type 2's; here's the link:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/petition/

Do get your friends and colleagues to sign as well.

 

[Lord Choc Ice]

Hello everyone .

Fraddycat, an average day's food would be;

Breakfastorridge, 3 slices toast (white bread), one banana and two biscuits.

Lunch: Sandwiches - 2 rounds, cheese and tomato and BLT.

Dinner: Pork chops, potatoes, carrots.

Daibell, yes I am VERY overweight and I'm 48.

welsh_kev, I'm using a Mylife Pura X meter.

daisy1, thank you for the information - haven't gone through it all yet.

I also had a kidney transplant 23 years ago and take medication for that and high blood-pressure/cholesterol/gout et al !

 

[Fraddycat]

Well you know I feel that we can really help you, if you are willing to make some diet changes. Please take some time to read through Daisy's post and think about whether you can make some significant changes to the amount of carbohydrates you eat. What I mean by that is to reduce if not cut out products made with flour, particularly bread and rice, pasta and potatoes. This sounds really drastic I know but it will really make a difference - I has for me, I have been diagnosed for 2 and a half years and for 2 years followed the standard advice, eat a healthly diet and saw my diabetes get worse and my meds increase - my diabetic nurse threatened me with insulin too.

Since July I have been following the Low Carb High Fat diet and have lost nearly 2 stone and my BG readings have really come down. And you don't have to be deprived, tonight I am cooking roast pork with loads of crackling and cauliflower cheese - the sauce is made with double cream and grated cheddar - yum!

 

[Ali H]

Hello everyone .

Fraddycat, an average day's food would be;

Breakfastorridge, 3 slices toast (white bread), one banana and two biscuits.

Lunch: Sandwiches - 2 rounds, cheese and tomato and BLT.

Dinner: Pork chops, potatoes, carrots.

Daibell, yes I am VERY overweight and I'm 48.

welsh_kev, I'm using a Mylife Pura X meter.

daisy1, thank you for the information - haven't gone through it all yet.

I also had a kidney transplant 23 years ago and take medication for that and high blood-pressure/cholesterol/gout et al !

Hi there, looks as though carbs are your downfall then.

Try swapping your breakfast to bacon, egg, mushrooms or 2 slices of burgen soya and linseed toast with a scrape of reduced sugar jam. Notice the OR, not both!

Lunch - a single slice of wholemeal seeded bread with a large salad and protein ie chicken, tuna, hard boiled egg, smoked salmon, cheese or whatever you like with a salad. Watch any dressings for sugar content.

Dinner - Meat, fish or whatever protein with plenty of leafy green veg, stir fry veg but less root veg as carrots, parsnips and potatoes in particular are high in carbs. Reduce it right down to 4 small new potatoes as a start.

You can have greek yoghurt with berries in it, sugar free jelly and cream etc as puddings.

Try and avoid bananas as they are high carb also grapes, melons etc. You can get lots of advice on the low carb forum on this site and plenty of cook books about low carbing.

But, if you do the above, given the amount of carbs currently in your diet, do talk to your Doctor about your medication as you may find it will take you considerably lower than you have been used to and possibly into hypo territory so you will need to watch the meds accordingly.

Add in at least 30 minutes a day of walking and it should all start to help.

Ali

 

[Defren]

Hello everyone .

Fraddycat, an average day's food would be;

Breakfastorridge, 3 slices toast (white bread), one banana and two biscuits.

Lunch: Sandwiches - 2 rounds, cheese and tomato and BLT.

Dinner: Pork chops, potatoes, carrots.

Daibell, yes I am VERY overweight and I'm 48.

welsh_kev, I'm using a Mylife Pura X meter.

daisy1, thank you for the information - haven't gone through it all yet.

I also had a kidney transplant 23 years ago and take medication for that and high blood-pressure/cholesterol/gout et al !

Your breakfast alone is more carbs than I eat in a day. You need to try reducing your carbs, and by quite a lot judging by your food diary. White bread is a huge no no, as are banana's. The biscuits won't help either. Eat as much dairy as you like, it's all good fats, and will make you feel fuller for longer. If you must eat bread, try just a couple of slices a day, and try Burgen soya and linseed. Rice, potato's, pasta, all wheat flour and processed foods should go, or you can try small amounts and test. If you change you diet, you will lose weight and get your BG under control. A diabetic diet is simply a different diet, no less tasty and filling, but much healthier and better for you.

Good luck.

 

[Lord Choc Ice]

Well you know I feel that we can really help you, if you are willing to make some diet changes. Please take some time to read through Daisy's post and think about whether you can make some significant changes to the amount of carbohydrates you eat. What I mean by that is to reduce if not cut out products made with flour, particularly bread and rice, pasta and potatoes. This sounds really drastic I know but it will really make a difference - I has for me, I have been diagnosed for 2 and a half years and for 2 years followed the standard advice, eat a healthly diet and saw my diabetes get worse and my meds increase - my diabetic nurse threatened me with insulin too.

Since July I have been following the Low Carb High Fat diet and have lost nearly 2 stone and my BG readings have really come down. And you don't have to be deprived, tonight I am cooking roast pork with loads of crackling and cauliflower cheese - the sauce is made with double cream and grated cheddar - yum!

Thanks very much Fraddycat. Reading Daisy's post was quite frightening as was getting my glucose result. I can change the carbohydrates I eat to the 'better' ones . I have cut down on the biscuits already. I do eat too many potatoes I suppose so that is another area too. It all needs changing . This is scary. I eat too late as well. I mean I have breakfast at 1pm, lunch at 6pm and dinner at 10pm ! So from 10pm to 1pm the next day I have eaten nothing.

My exercising should also help...hopefully. I have a treadmill and weights and a stepper.

 

[Lord Choc Ice]

Hello everyone .

Fraddycat, an average day's food would be;

Breakfastorridge, 3 slices toast (white bread), one banana and two biscuits.

Lunch: Sandwiches - 2 rounds, cheese and tomato and BLT.

Dinner: Pork chops, potatoes, carrots.

Daibell, yes I am VERY overweight and I'm 48.

welsh_kev, I'm using a Mylife Pura X meter.

daisy1, thank you for the information - haven't gone through it all yet.

I also had a kidney transplant 23 years ago and take medication for that and high blood-pressure/cholesterol/gout et al !

Hi there, looks as though carbs are your downfall then.

Try swapping your breakfast to bacon, egg, mushrooms or 2 slices of burgen soya and linseed toast with a scrape of reduced sugar jam. Notice the OR, not both!

Lunch - a single slice of wholemeal seeded bread with a large salad and protein ie chicken, tuna, hard boiled egg, smoked salmon, cheese or whatever you like with a salad. Watch any dressings for sugar content.

Dinner - Meat, fish or whatever protein with plenty of leafy green veg, stir fry veg but less root veg as carrots, parsnips and potatoes in particular are high in carbs. Reduce it right down to 4 small new potatoes as a start.

You can have greek yoghurt with berries in it, sugar free jelly and cream etc as puddings.

Try and avoid bananas as they are high carb also grapes, melons etc. You can get lots of advice on the low carb forum on this site and plenty of cook books about low carbing.

But, if you do the above, given the amount of carbs currently in your diet, do talk to your Doctor about your medication as you may find it will take you considerably lower than you have been used to and possibly into hypo territory so you will need to watch the meds accordingly.

Add in at least 30 minutes a day of walking and it should all start to help.

Ali

Thanks Ali, some great advice there. Yes, carbohydrates seem to be way too much. I have cut down to one banana a day but I suppose none a day is best. Plus lowering the amount of potatoes too. Never realised that about carrots. I take your point about a possible hypo as my GP did mention that too.

 

[Lord Choc Ice]

Hello everyone .

Fraddycat, an average day's food would be;

Breakfastorridge, 3 slices toast (white bread), one banana and two biscuits.

Lunch: Sandwiches - 2 rounds, cheese and tomato and BLT.

Dinner: Pork chops, potatoes, carrots.

Daibell, yes I am VERY overweight and I'm 48.

welsh_kev, I'm using a Mylife Pura X meter.

daisy1, thank you for the information - haven't gone through it all yet.

I also had a kidney transplant 23 years ago and take medication for that and high blood-pressure/cholesterol/gout et al !

Your breakfast alone is more carbs than I eat in a day. You need to try reducing your carbs, and by quite a lot judging by your food diary. White bread is a huge no no, as are banana's. The biscuits won't help either. Eat as much dairy as you like, it's all good fats, and will make you feel fuller for longer. If you must eat bread, try just a couple of slices a day, and try Burgen soya and linseed. Rice, potato's, pasta, all wheat flour and processed foods should go, or you can try small amounts and test. If you change you diet, you will lose weight and get your BG under control. A diabetic diet is simply a different diet, no less tasty and filling, but much healthier and better for you.

Good luck.

Hi Defren. Wow, I never knew my carbs intake was that bad . I suppose I have been kidding myself. Porridge is OK I hope ? As I said in my previous posts I will switch to wholemeal from now on and look into the rice situation as I haven't tried anything but basmati. As far as processed foods go most of my food is fresh but I have one microwave meal a week and that's pasta ! I don't eat cakes or any other type of sweets at all, never have. I do have a couple of Becks a week which I have also reduced - to one !

It's going to take time and will-power but I needed the kick I got from the blood-test. Diabetes out of control is no good at all and much more so for the transplant.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. Raw carrots are much, much better than cooked ones for blood sugar and taste nicer. Why does anyone cook carrots? Alcohol is generally OK so don't worry about the Becks but I'm sure a nice English Real Ale would taste better

 

[Fraddycat]

The trick is to test, test, test. Test before you eat and then test 2 hours after to find out what foods suit you and what foods don't. Everyone is different. You should be aiming for 7.8 two hours after dinner.

I personally don't eat any bread, not even wholemeal, it doesn't work for me, and once I start I can't stop. Bacon and eggs work well for brekkie - esp at 1pm. Or greek yoghurt with berries.

I was quite shocked last night, I had a burger (no bun) whilst out with my hubby, as a treat I let myself have 6 or 7 chips (which were so delish!) but 2 hours later I spiked to 8.5 - that's higher than I have been for a long time, and much higher than I like to be. It just brings home to me that this change is for life, not just while I am losing weight.

 

[Lord Choc Ice]

Hi. Raw carrots are much, much better than cooked ones for blood sugar and taste nicer. Why does anyone cook carrots? Alcohol is generally OK so don't worry about the Becks but I'm sure a nice English Real Ale would taste better

I'm not sure why really but I don't like raw carrots as much as cooked. I mean raw carrots with a meal sounds a bit yuk . Thanks for the advice about the Becks, I feel a bit better now as I could feel myself sinking. I do prefer ale and have tried a few a while ago but stopped. Maybe I'll get the odd one again and stop the Becks - all one of them !

 

[Lord Choc Ice]

The trick is to test, test, test. Test before you eat and then test 2 hours after to find out what foods suit you and what foods don't. Everyone is different. You should be aiming for 7.8 two hours after dinner.

I personally don't eat any bread, not even wholemeal, it doesn't work for me, and once I start I can't stop. Bacon and eggs work well for brekkie - esp at 1pm. Or greek yoghurt with berries.

I was quite shocked last night, I had a burger (no bun) whilst out with my hubby, as a treat I let myself have 6 or 7 chips (which were so delish!) but 2 hours later I spiked to 8.5 - that's higher than I have been for a long time, and much higher than I like to be. It just brings home to me that this change is for life, not just while I am losing weight.

Oh dear, 7.8 . Now that would be heaven at the moment. Mind you, on Friday morning it was 9 which is a whole lot better than 28. I think testing is quite stressful too but I need to know what is going on. I have been on this increase in medication for a week and also I have an abscess which I take medication for too. I hope that soon I will stabilize. I have another blood-test on Wednesday and I'll see what the situation is then.

 

[Defren]

Oh dear, 7.8 . Now that would be heaven at the moment. Mind you, on Friday morning it was 9 which is a whole lot better than 28. I think testing is quite stressful too but I need to know what is going on. I have been on this increase in medication for a week and also I have an abscess which I take medication for too. I hope that soon I will stabilize. I have another blood-test on Wednesday and I'll see what the situation is then.

Quite a few people here have found this helpful: http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf I didn't use it when first diagnosed as people like Borofergie, xyzzy, Grazer and others kicked my as* and put me straight. However, I have had a look at the site and it really is a brilliant place to start. For carb counting there is the little gem carb counting book on Amazon for £2-£3 something like that, or web sites, I use: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/

I doubt there are many if any of us who when first told the news didn't panic, I know I did - big time! Now I have full control of my diabetes, lost around 90lbs in weight and have reached a normal BMI, I also have well below recommended cholesterol levels. All due to a low carb diet. It seems like your head is going to explode as you are taking in so much information, but honestly, much sooner than you could dream, all the pieces will fall into place.

If I were asked to recommend three things to a newly diagnosed diabetic they would be;

1. A glucose meter and good supply of strips
2. A carb counting book/website/app
3. A set of reliable kitchen scales.

Those three things give all the control of your BG to YOU! One other piece of advice would be, don't worry, and ask all the questions that bother you. None are ever to small or silly and you can bet your life, someone will have had experience and be able to help you. The main participant in your care is you.

Good luck - Jo

 

[xyzzy]

Hi Lord Choc Ice

Agree with what everyone is saying about starchy carbs (rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, cereals and other things made from flour). That's definitely what causing your high levels. Like Defren you eat more carbs for your breakfast than I eat in a day :shock: I just take Metformin but through carb restriction maintain my levels near those of a non diabetic so they are normally somewhere between 4.5 and 6 for the vast majority of the time. To do that I use my meter to gauge my tolerance and for me, in anyone meal, its around 2 level tablespoons of brown basmati rice or (50g) a similar amount of brown pasta, one round of low carb Bergen bread a day or around 3 new potatoes. I can't eat any quantity of cereals what so ever. When I discovered how c**p my tolerance was and that eating those starch foods really wasn't that much different than eating pure sugar I pretty soon learnt via the people on this forum to replace the starch with things like extra meat, fish, cheese, eggs and loads of green veg and not to be afraid of eating "fatty" foods. Sounds hard and to be honest it was for the first few weeks but nowadays I don't miss the starchy foods at all and rarely eat any of them. On that high fat diet I actually lowered my cholesterol back to normal levels and lost 4 stone in weight in 6 months. I admit it sounds completely a**e about face to what we have been taught all of our lives but it works brilliantly. I dropped by hBA1c from 11.3% at diagnosis to 4.9% (yes four) in six months. I am not unusual in this as all I did was to follow the brilliant advise of others on this site who have done that regime for years. Let's be very clear it's no cure as I have to stick to the low carb diet or else my levels still spike through the roof but I feel better than I've done for years and back in control of my life.

The levels you are running at will be causing you damage so my advice is you need to seriously consider what long term lifestyle changes you should make. If you want to keep to the diet you are on then fine but be honest with yourself and admit to continue with it will require you to take a load more medication or probably go on insulin. Alternatively you can try the diet low carb route. Remember the UK N.I.C.E health guidelines state your max levels should be below 8 2 hours after eating a meal and be between 4 and 7 at all other times.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

 

[Lord Choc Ice]

Hello Defren and xyzzy and thanks for your kind replies.

Your advice helps a lot and puts my mind (which is about to explode) at ease somewhat. I mean I have had diabetes for many years now but this is the second time in a few years it has reached such levels. The first time I wasn't on any medication as such so perhaps it wasn't as bad (if that makes sense) but now I have been taking medication for a while and the readings are bad I'm very worried indeed. My GP said I should have been in hospital on an insulin drip - .

Carbs are my downfall and I need to change my diet. Going to wholemeal bread (I don't want to stop eating bread as such) will make a nice change. Brown Basmati rice sounds fine too. I never have sugar (well I mean I don't add it to anything and use a substitute in drinks) either. The low carb diet sounds ideal and I'm not afraid to eat fatty foods . It's going to be tough though. Losing weight is a complete anathema to me and I don't want to look old and haggard either.

However, my other 'ingredient' to my health woes is my lifestyle - I do nothing. I eat and then sit at the laptop or go back to bed and that's it - that can't be good for anyone. But I have started slowly exercising again and downloaded home weight-training workouts from YouTube (it's legal ) and also cardio (step) workouts which I can then watch on my TV and follow the instructors - it's great ! People would pay good money to see me doing step aerobics :lol: . I also have a pedometer in the post which I can connect to my laptop and download the data.

I've got a lot to do now to get back to a good level and to be honest I'm maxed out with the worry.

EDIT: Been doing a bit more research and I think it should be whole grain bread I need. Plus brown rice and can't find a substitute for biscuits ! This is doing my head in :crazy: . OK, so sorry for this silly question but would a microwaveable curry (no rice) be better than a microwaveable lasagna then ?

EDIT2:Just did the comparison and the Lasagna (on the left) is terrible for me;

 

[xyzzy]

When you look at labels its really very straightforward. Just look at the Carbohydrate / 100g value. When I was first diagnosed I ignored all other figures entirely. After reading up decided that short term control of blood levels was the most important and I'd worry about fat and protein later. The worst offending meaningless figure on a label is the Total Sugars one as sugar is just a refined form of carbohydrate so its included in the carbohydrate value anyway. Its just a marketing ploy to make high carb starchy foods that are going to screw your levels just as badly as sugar look better. The only purpose it can serve is to note that as its value approaches the carbohydrate value it can indicate how fast in minutes they will screw your levels but apart from that ignore it.

If you've worked tjis out sorry but to calculate the carb content of food (called carb counting) just weigh out the quantity you are about to eat in grams then multiply by the grams per hundred carbohydrate value and divide by 100. So assume you are going to eat 250g of both the products you've uploaded. The left hand one would be 250 times 13.6 divided by 100 and the right hand one would be 250 times 4.5 divided by 100.

Do the same maths for each thing in the meal and add all the values up to get the total for the meal. I personally try and do very low carb breakfasts and lunches as for most people their insulin responses are worse in the morning and get better as the day progresses. I do most of my carbs at my main meal.

These sites are useful for getting carbs / 100g values

http://www.carbohydrate-counter.org/advsearch.php

and

http://www.fatsecret.com/ (use the search top right on the home page)

Keep asking questions !

Your meter is key to all of this and I can't emphasise how important I found it as it will tell you on a meal by meal basis how sucessful things are. Expect some failures! If you're the competitive type like me I found typing my results into a spreadsheet so I could see the progression of getting better very helpful.

I find curries minus the vast majority of rice and no Nan (probably the most evil food on the planet in my opinion) are fine and I get a takeaway most weeks. Try getting a curry with a thick sauce then add things like an onion, spinach, cauliflower or mushroom bhajis. If that still isn't enough I add a chicken tikka starter to get more meat and content.

Early on I had a rule where anything labelled more than around 10g / 100g carbohydrate was treated with suspicion and handled at arms length :lol:

What I also found useful, was to empty out my freezer / fridge / cupboards and actually look at the carb contents. That way you get an overall view of what's good and bad.

Exercise wise I'm in much the same position as you but I do walk the dogs for an hour most days but that's about it. Don't do too much strenuous exercise so that you end up hungry and eat as that's a common mistake. Gentle exercise can be ideal as your body will power its requirements from your fat reserves rather than from glucose so its an excellent way of losing weight if you need to.