Newcastle diet concerns

[Benjamin 72]

I've been type 2 diabetic for 20 years.

I've done keto for 18 years then carnivore for the past 2 years.

I've been very ill the last few years as I've had alot of ops about 8 ops. Had sepsis 3 times needed hospital treatment. Loads of skin infections. Not healing. Keyloyed scaring.

I keeped my diabetes under control for years via diet but now I carnt. Oral meds don't do anything or I get serious side effects. My endo wants me on insulin. I have tried it I put 9 kg on in 3 months and it made my health and mobility worse. I tried it again for a week an put 2.5 kg on again. I've got non alcoholic fatty liver. I've got sevear neuropathy in my legs face head and neck. I'm also going blind. once I stopped the insulin the weight dropped off me. I know it's no good for type 2 but I needed to prove it to my final nurses... They arel not concerned about the weight gain at all.

my endo has suggested I do it the old way and starve myself of the diabetes. He said they used to do it years ago. I've looked in to the Newcastle diet but I am concerned about the sugar content of the shakes. It can not be good, am I wrong?? He did say to do gastric bypass but I've been refused as I'm not classes as fat enough.

the only meds I am allowed now is insulin & I can not take it due to weight gain. I have used it under a low can diet and still out weight on. My cals go down a lot but still weight gain. Oral meds don't work and some are to dangerous to take on a low carb diet as I found out.

I thought about prof roy Taylor diet...

my end would never say it's ok. I wouldn't get medical help on it. My nurses want me on carbs and sugar.

Not eating doesn't bother me. I am just concerned about the sugar content of the shakes as it's alot.

 

[Goonergal]

Hi @Benjamin 72 and welcome

I’m a little confused. The Newcastle Diet and the Professor Roy Taylor diet are one and the same thing. Is there something specific your endo is objecting too?

I think you’re right to be concerned about the sugar content of the shakes, and personally I struggle with the concept of the diet as there is the question of what to eat after the restrictive period has ended. There have been some people who figured out a ‘real food’ version of the Newcastle Diet to avoid the sugar and processed shakes, so that might be worth exploring.

What is your HbA1c? It’s quite unusual for someone eating a ketogenic diet or carnivore to have very raised BG levels - are there any underlying conditions that need to be taken into account?

 

[Brunneria]

Hi and welcome @Benjamin 72

There are a lot of things mentioned in your post, and I don't want to bog things down by talking about them - you have asked a clear question about the sugar content of the shakes used in the Newcastle, so I will stick to discussing just that.

Firstly, The Newcastle Diet only used that particular brand of shakes in order to give consistency - and because they were sponsored to do so. You could choose different shakes, of different brands, and there are several keto brands out there. Off the top of my head, one brand name is Purition. Atkins also do shakes (less natural than the Purition ones).

Alternatively, you could do the 800 cal diet with real food, rather than using shakes. Michael Mosely wrote a book on it, complete with recipes. I think the world is divided into people who like the idea of the shakes for ease, consistency, and practicality, or people who want REAL food, and can't face the thought of a liquid diet for weeks at a time. I would probably go for the shakes, myself, mainly because I know that controlling portion size would be more difficult with real food. lol.

Hope that helps!
And I am really sorry that you are facing so much ill health and unhelpful healthcare support. Has anyone tested your insulin production, to work out your level of insulin resistance?

 

[Arab Horse]

So sorry to read all this. You certainly don't want a diet of sugars and carbs; sorry to disagree with your nurse but as a (retired) biochemist the last thing you heed is"carbs and sugar"..
I didn't need to lose weight when I was diagnosed but needed to cut the carbs and my weight went from just under nine stones to just over seven stones very quickly. You need to cut the carbs and sugar almost completely, it will get your weight down and hopefully your glucose as well although that will probably take a bit longer.
I think intermittent fasting would be great for you.
My diet now consists of meat, fish, eggs and non starchy veg. I had to completely change the way I eat but I don't want the nasty side effects you have. I am happy to give you my "diet" but there are lots of good low carb, healthy diet to suit everyone available.

 

[Benjamin 72]

Hi @Benjamin 72 and welcome

I’m a little confused. The Newcastle Diet and the Professor Roy Taylor diet are one and the same thing. Is there something specific your endo is objecting too?

I think you’re right to be concerned about the sugar content of the shakes, and personally I struggle with the concept of the diet as there is the question of what to eat after the restrictive period has ended. There have been some people who figured out a ‘real food’ version of the Newcastle Diet to avoid the sugar and processed shakes, so that might be worth exploring.

What is your HbA1c? It’s quite unusual for someone eating a ketogenic diet or carnivore to have very raised BG levels - are there any underlying conditions that need to be taken into account?

Carnivore made my diabetes a lot worse. My bs doubled and I ended up with fatty liver.

Endo just won't talk about it. Been told they have to stick to government guide lines.They have me doing keto.

 

[Benjamin 72]

Hi and welcome @Benjamin 72

There are a lot of things mentioned in your post, and I don't want to bog things down by talking about them - you have asked a clear question about the sugar content of the shakes used in the Newcastle, so I will stick to discussing just that.

Firstly, The Newcastle Diet only used that particular brand of shakes in order to give consistency - and because they were sponsored to do so. You could choose different shakes, of different brands, and there are several keto brands out there. Off the top of my head, one brand name is Purition. Atkins also do shakes (less natural than the Purition ones).

Alternatively, you could do the 800 cal diet with real food, rather than using shakes. Michael Mosely wrote a book on it, complete with recipes. I think the world is divided into people who like the idea of the shakes for ease, consistency, and practicality, or people who want REAL food, and can't face the thought of a liquid diet for weeks at a time. I would probably go for the shakes, myself, mainly because I know that controlling portion size would be more difficult with real food. lol.

Hope that helps!
And I am really sorry that you are facing so much ill health and unhelpful healthcare support. Has anyone tested your insulin production, to work out your level of insulin resistance?

Carnivore made my diabetes alot worse. My bs doubled on it and I got fatty liver.

My endo won't talk about the diet.

 

[Benjamin 72]

So sorry to read all this. You certainly don't want a diet of sugars and carbs; sorry to disagree with your nurse but as a (retired) biochemist the last thing you heed is"carbs and sugar"..
I didn't need to lose weight when I was diagnosed but needed to cut the carbs and my weight went from just under nine stones to just over seven stones very quickly. You need to cut the carbs and sugar almost completely, it will get your weight down and hopefully your glucose as well although that will probably take a bit longer.
I think intermittent fasting would be great for you.
My diet now consists of meat, fish, eggs and non starchy veg. I had to completely change the way I eat but I don't want the nasty side effects you have. I am happy to give you my "diet" but there are lots of good low carb, healthy diet to suit everyone available.

I've done intimitant fasting for years. Doesn't do anything for me.

 

[Benjamin 72]

Hi and welcome @Benjamin 72

There are a lot of things mentioned in your post, and I don't want to bog things down by talking about them - you have asked a clear question about the sugar content of the shakes used in the Newcastle, so I will stick to discussing just that.

Firstly, The Newcastle Diet only used that particular brand of shakes in order to give consistency - and because they were sponsored to do so. You could choose different shakes, of different brands, and there are several keto brands out there. Off the top of my head, one brand name is Purition. Atkins also do shakes (less natural than the Purition ones).

Alternatively, you could do the 800 cal diet with real food, rather than using shakes. Michael Mosely wrote a book on it, complete with recipes. I think the world is divided into people who like the idea of the shakes for ease, consistency, and practicality, or people who want REAL food, and can't face the thought of a liquid diet for weeks at a time. I would probably go for the shakes, myself, mainly because I know that controlling portion size would be more difficult with real food. lol.

Hope that helps!
And I am really sorry that you are facing so much ill health and unhelpful healthcare support. Has anyone tested your insulin production, to work out your level of insulin resistance?

I can do 800 cal of food but I feel I need to start clear of it to lose weight.It's so easy to eat more and not even notice your over eating. I also have mobility issues in my arms so I can't cook. I'm waiting for a full shoulder replacement and have compartment syndrome in both forarms. Nerve issues.
Shakes I can do... That's why I'm looking at shakes.

I've had no tests done for insulin production. Hard enough to get my diabetic bloods done. My endo said I could be lada diabetic but nothing else was mentioned.It does say in medical notes I could be a 1.5 diabetic.I only found that out their district nurse care. My care givers give pushing insulin on me and that's it. No tests.

 

[Jaylee]

Hi @Benjamin 72 ,

Welcome to,the forum.

What insulin does your specialist want to prescribe?

 

[ziggy_w]

So sorry to read about your struggles, @Benjamin 72 I can't have been easy for you this last year.

Has your GP ordered a c-peptide test? Imho, this would be extremely important in deciding how to move on from here. If you aren't making enough of your own insulin (as in LADA), then treatment with injecting insulin will probably be unavoidable (at least in the long-run.)

However, with you the problem might be still insulin resistance rather than insulin deficiency (evidenced by a higher c-peptide for insulin resistance.) Fatty liver and issues with losing weight seem to make this more likely. In this case, insulin might only be a short-term fix and not do anything to improve the underlying problem. This might then make a low-calorie diet combined with low-carb a good option.

It is too bad that most of us are never tested for insulin production -- because it would definitely help in decision-making.

Have you tried lowering protein?

Personally, I believe that we all react differently to higher protein consumption. For myself, I definitely have observed significantly higher average blood sugars (though no real spikes) the day after. Instead, you might be able increase non-starchy fibrous veggies.

 

[Benjamin 72]

Hi @Benjamin 72 ,

Welcome to,the forum.

What insulin does your specialist want to prescribe?

I've got nova rapid and tresida. It's the only ones I can use with my hand mobility issues.

 

[Benjamin 72]

So sorry to read about your struggles, @Benjamin 72 I can't have been easy for you this last year.

Has your GP ordered a c-peptide test? Imho, this would be extremely important in deciding how to move on from here. If you aren't making enough of your own insulin (as in LADA), then treatment with injecting insulin will probably be unavoidable (at least in the long-run.)

However, with you the problem might be still insulin resistance rather than insulin deficiency (evidenced by a higher c-peptide for insulin resistance.) Fatty liver and issues with losing weight seem to make this more likely. In this case, insulin might only be a short-term fix and not do anything to improve the underlying problem. This might then make a low-calorie diet combined with low-carb a good option.

It is too bad that most of us are never tested for insulin production -- because it would definitely help in decision-making.

Have you tried lowering protein?

Personally, I believe that we all react differently to higher protein consumption. For myself, I definitely have observed significantly higher average blood sugars (though no real spikes) the day after. Instead, you might be able increase non-starchy fibrous veggies.

I have tried the paleo medicina protocol of 50-60 g macro protein and 100-120 g macro fats.Still didn't do much.

I've used cars lowered protein. Tried it always.My body does react the same to protein as it does carbs. Which results in to high bs.

I've been on alot of antibiotics. I'm now on a 6 month prothalatic low dose of antibiotics as I have a infection inside me from surgery. I've also got to have some acid inserted once a week to try and kill it of. I need to sort my diabetes out as it's having too bigger impact on my surgery out comes. I've had to have a skin graft done 4 times because it keeps dieing. I need it doing again. All I've been told because of my diabetes. It's very stressful. Just need my diabetes to improve. I've had diabetes 20 years and I've been told it's impossible to cure now and all I have is insulin.

 

[KK123]

Hi there, I would not dream of giving you any specific advice as it sounds like you have been under a lot of stress with several medical issues (besides which, we are not allowed to give medical advice, quite rightly). Having said all of that, I note you refer a lot to your Endo not wanting to do this, that and the other but this is YOUR life and YOUR condition and once you have weighed up all the issues it is YOU that makes the final decision. I am not saying ignore the experts but if I were you, I would choose a low carb diet with real food, I would test before and after eating that food. I know you have tried low carb but maybe you could tell us what you would eat if it wasn't for the shakes you have been put on. This is a hard post to respond to because of all the conflicting issues but regardless of the types of diabetes, I believe any approach must start with FOOD, and whatever amounts of insulin you might need along with that food to keep your levels down. I know that insulin may not be ideal for those with insulin resistance and have read plenty about adding more insulin to a body that already has enough BUT in this situation it seems like you are struggling so maybe try a low carb diet, test, and see what your results are? The insulin can be used in conjunction with this but you may find low carb means less of it and perhaps better control. Good luck. x

 

[Daibell]

I can only give you my personal opinion on this. First insulin does not and cannot in itself cause weight gain. What it does is enable the body to metabolise carbs and excess carbs will cause weight gain. I suspect your daily intake of carbs is far too high? You need to aim for 150gm/day max and possibly a lot less. I'm not a fan at all of Prof Taylor's ND as I don't understand the science behind it. It follows Calories and tries to keep these at 800 per day. The weakness is that Calories are not a food group and the body handles each food group in different ways so measuring the input of these is not helpful. As fats have twice the calories of carbs keeping to 800 Cals may encourage fat reduction rather than carbs - the opposite of what is needed. So the ND can help sometimes but is not as good as simply keeping the Carbs down. Prof Taylor is for some unknown reason focussed on fatty livers whereas insulin resistance is the result of fat in many different body organs as well as the liver. So, my (amateur) advice is to have a low-carb diet if your other conditions allow it. I see you have tried Keto so maybe you have been keeping the carbs down anyway but not enough? Insulin may help a lot once your weight and insulin resistance come down.

 

[Nasarhayat]

Hi and welcome @Benjamin 72

There are a lot of things mentioned in your post, and I don't want to bog things down by talking about them - you have asked a clear question about the sugar content of the shakes used in the Newcastle, so I will stick to discussing just that.

Firstly, The Newcastle Diet only used that particular brand of shakes in order to give consistency - and because they were sponsored to do so. You could choose different shakes, of different brands, and there are several keto brands out there. Off the top of my head, one brand name is Purition. Atkins also do shakes (less natural than the Purition ones).

Alternatively, you could do the 800 cal diet with real food, rather than using shakes. Michael Mosely wrote a book on it, complete with recipes. I think the world is divided into people who like the idea of the shakes for ease, consistency, and practicality, or people who want REAL food, and can't face the thought of a liquid diet for weeks at a time. I would probably go for the shakes, myself, mainly because I know that controlling portion size would be more difficult with real food. lol.

Hope that helps!
And I am really sorry that you are facing so much ill health and unhelpful healthcare support. Has anyone tested your insulin production, to work out your level of insulin resistance?

Thanks