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Newly Diagnosed - Doctor says Meds forever..

O

ObscureMH

Active Member
Messages
33
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hi all,


Male, aged 50, 1.79 metres tall, hovered around 80-82 kilos.

Last blood test about 2 and half years ago presented normal levels.


Had my “old man” NHS test this year, with result of raised levels, so sent for a full blood test.

Result from this (and pre-diagnosis) = Fasting Glucose of 16.8, which led to follow up.


Diagnosed 3 weeks ago.


Hba1c - 92

LDL - not available!

HDL - 1.2

Triglycerides - 5.5

(Ratio 6.5)


Cholesterol - 7.6


Mother is a diabetic


I didn't really take it all in, but didn't want to be on meds...

My wife had already found the Mosley Blood Sugar Diet following the glucose result, and we immediately went on the 800 calorie LCHF diet. Having read the book and various fora I thought that I'd try the diet route first, as I didn't (and still don't) want to be on meds forever.


Doctor prescribed:

Metformin, 500mg x 1, building to 500mg x 2 after 2 weeks.

Atorvastatin - 10mg x 1 at night


I stuck to 1 Metformin, with no side-effects, and didn't start the statin (was still confused on that one).


3 weeks on BSD started at 79.3kg, lost 3kg to go down to 76.4 today, taking me down to BMI of 24, and lost 5.5cm from belly. Loving full-fat greek yoghurt with berries for brekkie, salad, peppers, toms, and onion with tuna/chicken/turkey for lunch, and a new found appreciation of (some) veg, oh and eggs and bacon, cauliflower rice. Would say I’m currently on 50-75g carbs per day, mostly nearer 50-60. No bread, no beer, no potatoes, some red wine at the weekend – and one day off the wagon (company away day, where you need a few beers to survive, and beer = reduction in willpower, so ate mashed potatoes and a dessert!).


Was pleased with how things were going, but went back to Docs today and what I hadn’t really taken in first time was that as I wasn't particularly overweight and had no history of symptoms she feared/fears I may have a version of late-onset diabetes. She said that diet will of course help, but has asked me to build up to 4 x Metformin, by increasing by 1 each week, and to start the statins straight away. She also thinks that I’ll always be on Metformin or some equivalent.

They’re going to give me a monitor on Friday and teach me how to use it, and have another liver/Hba1c in 3 month’s time.


So, I agreed to follow medication directions, but feeling a bit down today as some outside hope of being able to control this thing with diet rather than meds doesn’t sound like an option for me.


Anyone else in the same situation as this?
 
My original numbers were very similar to yours, but I was 66 years old and I seem to be a classic type 2 - I was ill on the Metformin and statin, so I stopped taking them and seem to be just fine. My diabetes seems to be suppressed by the way I eat, though I do take a few liberties now at almost 11 months from diagnosis.
As long as you aren't ill or find your memory is not affected then you could be OK on the tablets - though my husband has recently decided to stop the statins and he is a different person to talk to, and my memory was badly affected by five weeks on the tablets. It is getting better slowly - and it means that I have had a lot of good books to read in the mean time. I know I must have read them before, but I can't recall the plots so I suppose that is a sort of lose/win situation.
I eat about the same amount of carbs as you do, maybe a bit less, but do not count calories. I seem to be doing fine as I am, with waistline shrinking a gentle reduction in weight and really good results on blood tests. So good my doctor is in a sulk and has not spoken to me since diagnosis - I expected to see him at three months, but I had an early blood test on the prompting of the diabetes education team (what a joke they were) and found I had dropped to beneath the radar with an Hba1c of 47 after 80 days.
Hopefully you will see a similar reduction - but neither Metformin nor Atorvastatin will have that effect - it is all down to diet.
 
I'm in a very similar boat to you. In April this year I had my "you are 50" NHS check up, HbA1c 109..that was a shock! Not overweight really bmi was 26. GP gave me a prescription for 3 x metformin tablets to be taken straight away. Having googled I decided not to take them and try diet first. So I started the 800 cal blood sugar diet and now follow the lchf diet with carbs around 60-80 a day. I really struggle to get lower carbs than that as a veggie. Anyway 3 months later HbA1c down to 52 and and bmi now 23. I do have my occasional "Oops" days but mostly I've been pretty good.
However my day to day blood glucose results vary so much and don't seem to be getting any lower. I can be anything from 6 to 11 throughout the day. I was also told I might be a type "1.5" and have been waiting to see the diabetic team...unfortunately I am still waiting.
I have no idea where I go from here but I guess when I have my next blood test (due early next year) they will review things?
Anyway I just wanted to say I know just how you feel and yes it gets me down at times too.
 
Sir, you always have an option!!! Just how bad do
you wanted!!!

I was diagnosed type 2 when I was 65, I thought I was pretty good shape. I ran, weight training, hiked near mountains, soccer, and involved many sports event. I was 115 lbs, 5’2” and BMI was 18.

When I got sick, I lost 30lbs and my doctor ran A1C it was 14.8, my glucose was 386 no symptoms of diabetes. At this point I was 37kg, 157cm, and BMI was 16. (May, 17)

Since May this year, I started low carb and high fat diet, 40-50g of carb, 40g of proteins, 2500-3000 cal to gain back my weight.
It doesn’t fix your A1C or glucose so quickly, I’m on the diet for 3 month my glucose average is down to 150mg/dL and A1C is 8.2, I take Glipizine 10mg once day. I’m hoping to get rid of Glipizide in one year. I’m now 40kg and started feeling better.

Be patient and stay on the proper diet and work out.
You need to make sure track of all foods and drinks you put in your mouth.
Good luck Sir, we can get rid of meds in future!

My measurements are in US not UK, little confusing!
 
Pretty much all type 2 diabetes is late onset, it's most commonly diagnosed over the age of 40. It's tested for in the old man test because that's when your risk is highest. There is not late onset type 2. In mentionimg late onset diabetes, I assume the doctor means late onset type 1.

If your GP thinks you are late onset type 1 and not type 2 are they investigating this with a cpeptide test (to see what you insulin production looks like) and a GAD test (to see if you have antibodies associated with autoimmune type 1 diabetes)? Those would be the tests to ask for to determine type of diabetes.

If it's type 1 then no medication isn't an option. It's insulin or die.

You don't have to be fat to be type 2 there are plenty of not particularly overweight, or in fact slim, type 2 diabetics.while the media portrays type 2 as a condition of obesity I am sure there will be many in here who will tell you that is more than a little simplistic: there are people who are thin outside, fat inside so they look thin but store a lot of fat around internal organs and this body composition can create insulin resistance and type 2; there are people with highly stressed lives and stress releases hormones counter regulatory to insulin; there are shift workers who never had a regular circadian rhythm and messing with the body clock messes with the hormones causing insulin resistance; there are people with PCOS (again messed up hormone balance) and; type 2 is pretty strongly genetic, so if you have any family history that will increase your risk without any lifestyle risk factors for type 2 (nb the lifestyle risk factors are considerably broader than your weigh, it's your whole lifestyle).
 

Hello there @ObscureMH .

It isn't my place, or any other forum member's place to tell you what to do in terms of your medication, so I won't discuss that, except to say that for most people who can tolerate Metformin (some suffer tummy troubles) it is a very safe drug indeed.

There are many members of this forum who have significantly reduced or even been able to give up their medication by looking after themselves. For most that does involve modifying their diet, but it appears you have embarked on that already.

Good luck with it all.
 
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Hi there @ObscureMH

I just wanted to say, well done for taking action soooooo so after being diagnosed and that I when I was diagnosed I really valued the real advice from the good people on this forum as a guide.

But in general good on you for asking for meter and do what works for you...

And Welcome Traveler..
 
Hi and welcome,

@catapillar is correct when she says there are plenty of slim people with type 2 diabetes. (and plenty of fat people without it). Genetics play a large role, and if your mum has type 2, that could be the connection. I hope your doctor is doing all the relevant tests that may confirm one way or the other which type you are. Perhaps you could check about this?

Well done to your wife for finding that book and for starting you off on the right path, and well done for your progress on weight loss and waist measurement. You have found the right forum for all the help, advice and support you need.

Good also that they are giving you a meter - but you may find yourself buying one as no doubt the meter you are given will have expensive test strips and your prescription for strips will be inadequate. However, that is for the future. Whatever they teach you about using a meter, you must use it to help you learn which your personal danger foods are. This involves testing before eating and 2 hours after first bite, looking at the rise from before to after and trying to keep this under 2mmol/l, preferably a lot less. More than that and there are too many carbs in that meal. Keeping a food diary including portion sizes is an excellent way to learn. You can record your levels alongside and watch for patterns, then you can reduce some carb portion sizes or eliminate some. I doubt very much "they" will tell you this as the NHS hasn't grasped the concept yet.

Good luck, ask as many questions as you like, and read as much as you can.
 
Hello and welcome to this site. It has changed my life. I also started with the blood sugar diet book but gave up on the recipes cos they were both expensive and fiddly. This site has a great low carb food section that has some great hints and I use it a lot.

As to your type of diabetes, I hope you find out soon what type you have because it makes a big difference in terms of medication. I see that you are to have another hbalc but have they mentioned any other tests? If not could you ask?
As the others have already said, it is easily possible to be a skinny t2d. My mum has looked much like a stick her entire life, which might bebe why her t2d was not spotted until she was past 70.

I take metformin with no issues. It has many other benefits so am happy with it. But its your choice what you take. Read everything. Find original studies and read those. Nobody can tell you what is best for you but you can get enough info to decide if you agree with your gp.

Good luck with it all.
 
High Triglyceridesis a common sign of too much fructose, table sugar, alcohol, and/or other carbs. High Triglyceridesoften results in increased fat in the Liver, increased Liver fat results in yet higher Triglycerides! Mosley Blood Sugar Diet will be removing the fat from your Liver. (The tests/scans the NHS use for Liver Fat will only detect the fat when it is at a VERY high level, you can still have lots of liver fat without it showing up on the standard tests/scans.)

When your GP says you are not over weight, ignore her/he, BMI is meaningless. The size of your belly tells the truth. It’s the fat inside and round your organs that have the most effect; the size of your belly tells you more about this then your weight.

The drugs your GP have put you on are sensible given your test results, that level of Triglycerides is clearly a high risk, hence the satins make sense. Metformin has been shown to have great long term benefit, with few down sides unless you get the side effects – therefore I am likely to take it for life regardless of how good my BG gets. Once you have proved your can control your Triglycerides with diet and/or if you get side effects from satins, it may be sensible to think about stopping the satins.

Another book to look at is “The Pioppi Diet”or if you want all the details of the science “The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living”, you need to start thinking about what you will eat long term, as "The body sugger diet" is a short term diet.

Your GP is thinking it is possible (but unlickly) that you have “slow onset Type1”rather than Type2, sensible to consider the possibility. If your BG keep going up even when you have reduced the carbs/sugar you eat/drink then you will need the tests for Type1 – hence issuing you with a BG meter. (The tests for Type1 don’t work well until it is well developed.) If your fasting BG has not come down with 3 weeks of the Blood Sugar Diet, then detailed investigation is needed.

Other then diet, “resistance training”can greatly help, for example https://www.drchatterjee.com/blog/5min-kitchen-workout.cfm and/or using the weight machines at the gym.

Personally I think your liver/Hba1/lipids tests should be repeated after 8 weeks (or even 6 weeks) as the Mosley Blood Sugar Diet should result in quick changes in results.
 
Hi. You are doing the right things ref diet. Yes, the GP probably meant Late onset T1. The two tests c-peptide and GAD help with that diagnosis but are not always conclusive. Continuing with a low-carb diet should reduce any stored internal fat but if your blood sugar continues to be high then you will need to go straight to insulin or perhaps go thru tablets such as Gliclazide for a while during a 'honeymoon' period.
 

Hi oh_dear_me I am similar to you (as in veggie) and find it difficult to have lower carbs than 70gm a day. Also as I have a lot of dairy (high cholesterol in family) I am finding it difficult to lower but will keep at it. My blood sugars are consistently around the 5.5-7.00 range, so happy with that.
 

I'm in a similar boat, but after a Pancreatitis. My GP was incredibly blasé, don't bother testing, don't go for blood tests, diabetes clinic will pick you up. I've changed to a low carb diet and since I'm on the system at my local hospital I'm taking myself back for HBA1c tests every 3 months. It's a walk in clinic so stuff the GP! If I can reduce the Metformin (currently on 2x500mg with breakfast and dinner) that would be great.
 

As far as I can see (I'm just starting out too) you are doing the right thing. Medics and nurses seem to want to treat the symptoms rather than the causes and there are a number of videos that advocate the opposite view.
You may have seen it but the infected leg analogy in this video by Jason Fung sticks with me. Best of luck
 
My HbA1C was 99 when diagnosed. Was prescribed 2x500 metformin daily. After 3 months my HbA1C dropped to 59 and then I dropped to 1x500 metfomin per day. Three months after this my HbA1C dropped to 44 and then I stopped taking metformin.

First I cut out all the high sugar food/drink. Then I progressively stopped eating high carb food like breakfast cereal, bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. I also stopped drinking fruit juice and avoided high sugar fruit like bananas and grapes. My blood glucose was 13.1 when diagnosed, 9.8 five weeks later when I saw the diabetes nurse and it slowly dropped to around 6.2 over the net few weeks as I cut back on the carbs. Now it is around 4-5.5 even though I am no longer on any medication. My weight has dropped from 85 Kg down to 73 Kg, so I feel a lot more healthy,

Most type 2 people can get their blood sugars down to non-diabetic levels within 9 months if they eat a low carb diet. Intermittent fasting and low calorie diets like Newcastle Diet or The Blood Sugar Diet 800 can also help.

The important thing is to get a blood glucose meter to check which foods spike your blood sugar and change your diet accordingly. You will need medication if you are LADA.

Statins raise blood sugars and can have some nasty side effects such as alzheimer like symptoms and severe muscle pain. Personally, I wont take them and prefer to alter my diet and take some plant sterols instead.
 
Thanks to all for your replies. A lot of welcome advice, and the message seems to be that it's different for each individual.
The diet continues, and lost another kilo, so down to 75.1. Mrs H doesn't want me to to lose too much more so I need to get going on the exercise to trim my belly down.

I received my meter on Friday with a cursory intro from general nurse on how to use it, and advice measure pre-breakfast and to "eat a bit of toast if reading was too low"....
Anyway, I'll test after meals once I get a few more sticks.
Pre brekkie readings have been;
6.7, 5.8, 4.8, 5.4 so far.
The 4.8 was the morning after I went up to 2 Metformin at night (though had forgotten to take it the preceding morning).
I'm under no illusion that there is still a long way to go, and I must test post eating, but thought I would share.
Thanks again.
Mark
 
Keep going as you are. Those morning fasting levels are very good, but mean very little in the grand scheme of things because of factors we have little control over. It is your before eating and 2 hours after first bite that matter the most, (especially your main meals if you are short of strips.)
 
Unless you are taking diabic meds other then metformin you should celibrate if your BG is "too low" and not eat any toast.

Use your limited test strips to experiment with the meals you often have, you are airming to learn what meals increase your BG by more then 2, so you can advoid having them again. Therer is no need to retest a meal often once you know it is OK for your BG.

A 10 minutes walk after a meal has been shown to reduce BG more then a once a day 30 minutes walk. So if possible do some light exercise after every meal. Otherwise resistance excercie seems to have the best effect, but all excercie is of benfit provided you don't damamge your body.
 

i was diagnosed with an hba1c of 104 in jan 2014, and as i wasn't particularly overweight, ate a basically healthy diet and exercised regularly, my gp also told me that there was nothing i could do to improve things, and that i needed to accept the fact that i would be on medication for the rest of my life. she put me on tablets for my blood pressure, and wanted me to have statins, but i refused those. anyway, various ups and downs, but 18 months ago, still on metformin and bp tablets, i switched to a lchf diet. i was also advised (not by my gp) to leave at least 5 hours between meals with no/minimal snacking to give my body a chance to reset my bg levels before eating again; plus it was recommended that i do at least 20 minutes exercise a day, and at least 5 min first thing in the morning, to wake my system up. so i've been doing that religiously since april last year - i've been off metformin for a year, stopped my bp pills in january, and my ha1bc last week was 36 - and everything else is normal. so much for having to be on medication for ever ....
 

Yes, I think so. If you look in my signature below, you will find similar numbers "at diagnosis." You are starting out with a higher HbA1C than mine was, but our body types are similar.

At diagnosis I had no smptoms, except I was urinating frequently -- something that I had mistakenly ascribed to "being late middle-aged" and hadn't even bothered to mention to the doctor. I was feeling fine. The diabetes diagnosis was the result of a routine annual medical.

The doctor prescribed a low-carb diet and said we should do another HbA1C test two months later to see if I could bring blood glucose levels under control without drugs. The answer turned out to be "yes."
 
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