NHS Choices Dietary advice

Bluetit1802 said:

I also found this very interesting. The return to base at one hour (not 2 hours) after a double figure spike is the interesting part, when DCUK advises under 7.8 at at least 90 minutes is normal for non-diabetics. I wonder how many of those on here that have reversed their diabetes can claim those sort of results?

I also wonder why the research was limited to 18-25 year olds when it is known that glucose levels rise naturally with age. (making it harder for us oldies!)

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It's because I work at a university so, unsurprisingly, most of the participants are of university age! There have been a few "oldies" and generally their results are fairly similar but there aren't enough of them to make a fair comparison unfortunately.

EDIT: Also, we're not necessarily looking at the differences with age. For the study I gave as an example we weren't even really that bothered about blood glucose, we were actually measuring ghrelin but did glucose too as "added interest".

Non-diabetics definitely spike. I think I've mentioned somewhere before about my daughter's carby meal and spiking to 10mmol at what was probably around an hour. Mine at the same time after eating a low carb meal was about 6.3

Yes, my husband spiked to 10.2 an hour after a carby meal, was still at 8 after 2 hours and then dropped. But the meal was a home made meat and spud pie with loads of gravy followed by a home made rice pudding followed by a bottle of beer.

On Christmas Day someone mentioned diabetes and they clamored for me to test them. Husband and 21 year old grandson declined for fear of something nasty.

Results at 2 and a half hours after a full Christmas dinner:
5.6
7.3
5.7
6.5

Guess which was the single diabetic?

The 5.6. (me!)

Not exactly scientific as portion sizes were different. The 6.5 was my 18 year old vegan granddaughter who had prepared her own meal.

Bluetit1802 said:

But to do a fair comparison, you both need to eat the same food.

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Good evening @Bluetit1802 we do 90% of the time so it should be easy

Dark Horse said:

Thanks, I think explains it. Even though you mentioned that you were diabetic, what you've asserted in your email is that "carbs ... are a major cause of diabetes T2" and that seems to be the point that NHS choices was trying to answer. Although you are correct that the number of diabetics is rising, the prevalence of diabetes is only around 6 or 7% of the population so for a large majority of people the statement they made about total carbohydrate and glycaemia is probably correct.

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Then surely some separate consideration and dietary advise for diabetics and the effects carb have on raising glucose should be Published? I mean it's not rocket science here, if we can work it out why the hell can't they?

Oh wait, doesn't our illustrious leader and prime minister have type 1 diabetes? I bet she carb counts the hypocrite

Johnjoe13 said:

Then surely some separate consideration and dietary advise for diabetics and the effects carb have on raising glucose should be Published? I mean it's not rocket science here, if we can work it out why the hell can't they?

Oh wait, doesn't our illustrious leader and prime minister have type 1 diabetes? I bet she carb counts the hypocrite

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I bet she gets her food prepared, and delivered to her on a plate to be honest.

daisyduck said:

Has anyone ever tested a non diabetic after a carby meal ?
Am I mistaken in thinking that carbs raise BG in everyone ? Even if it may only be temporary for a non diabetic

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http://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-016-0219-0



These charts compares Obese Insulin Resistant subjects with Lean Insulin Sensitive ones with Normal Glucose response. ie not clinically prediabetic or diabetic.

A series is for post meal Insulin response
B series is for post meal Glucose response

The difference in the Glucose rise for a High Carb meals between the 2 group is rather marginal. However note the difference in Insulin response. That is probably why Dr Joseph Kraft, Dr Jason Fung, Dr David Ludwig etc thinks the Carbs/Insulin Response model may be a better model to explain the exploding obesity/Type 2 diabetes crisis.

Of course we can further differentiate complex, refine carbs and high fructose corn syrup and the different type of fats...but the simple advise of reducing carbs is already very effective for many of us.

What is surprising to many of us is of course the fact that protein is highly insulinogenic as well. Which is why low carb high protein doesn't work so well for obese insulin resistant T2D. It may still trigger the reactive hypoglycemia that results in binge feeding at the next meal.

Zoe Harcombe looked at the conflict of interests in the SACN and wrote an excellent report. It takes a while to read it and it has some interesting embedded links which are enlightening.

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2016/03/eatwell-guide-conflicts-of-interest/

Zoe Harcombe's produced a number of very interesting reports questioning and debunking 'conventional wisdom.' She's also pretty good at highlighting vested interests.

Daibell said:

A few weeks back I was so incensed by the stupid 'have loads of carbs' advice on the NHS Choices website, I emailed them to say how ridiculous and outdated the advice it was. Today I received a reply:

Thank you for your feedback regarding the role of carbohydrates in the diet.

In the UK, government policy on nutrition is based on advice from expert groups, including the Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition (SACN), and before this, the Committee on Medical Aspects of Food Policy (COMA). SACN is a UK advisory committee of independent experts that provide advice to Public Health England (PHE), as well as other government agencies and departments. Its remit includes matters concerning nutrient content of individual foods, advice on diet and the nutritional status of people.

The Eatwell Guide depicts a diet that is based on fruit, vegetables and wholegrain starchy carbohydrates taking into account new recommendations for sugar and fibre from the SACN report on Carbohydrates and Health. Find the report in the following link:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sacn-carbohydrates-and-health-report

In this report, SACN considered a huge volume of evidence and applied strict inclusion and exclusion criteria to ensure that the studies considered were of sufficient quality to enable sound conclusions to be reached. This was in line with SACN’s framework for the assessment of evidence (https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-committee-on-nutrition).

The evidence considered by SACN for its Carbohydrates and Health report does not support using a low carbohydrate diet to reduce the risk of Type 2 diabetes. It also concluded that the hypothesis that diets higher in total carbohydrate cause weight gain was not supported by the evidence from the long term Randomised Controlled Trials considered; it also concluded that there is no association between total carbohydrate intake and glycaemia (blood glucose level).

As a result, government recommendations continue to advise the population to consume a diet based on higher fibre foods such as fruit, vegetables, beans and pulses, and to base meals on wholegrain starchy foods such as bread, rice, pasta and potatoes with the skins on.

So, perhaps I should stop my insulin as there is no connection between total carbs and blood sugar level and/or I can pig out on carbs with no weight gain. BTW I looked at the SACN website and the list of members and their Register of Interests. Was I surprised to find that many of the Professor members are funded by food or pharma companies - No. So now you know officially that Carbs are good for us

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This scandal costs the taxpayer billions and kills people!

I wear a Freestyle Libre continuous monitor so can actually see in real time just what most carbohydrates do to my blood sugar!
Eating low carb/high fat took my blood sugar from 19 down to 5 - without ANY drugs in less than a month.
Lets end the scandal of people dying for nothing!

Edited by a moderator.

I wholeheartedly agree with you and I've tagged admin,to see if they can help us reverse this decision,hopefully they can.

Granny_grump_ said:

I wholeheartedly agree with you and I've tagged admin,to see if they can help us reverse this decision,hopefully they can.

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Unsure at this time if administrators have received my message has not sure if I've done it right,but a moderator sent me a message saying she had,sorry head gone cannot recall what she said.But I sent her a reply asking if she had sent it on,not heard back yet.

Granny_grump_ said:

Unsure at this time if administrators have received my message has not sure if I've done it right,but a moderator sent me a message saying she had,sorry head gone cannot recall what she said.But I sent her a reply asking if she had sent it on,not heard back yet.

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Catherinecherub think she is a moderator said she had edited it for me,any clues if it could mean my message to administrators?