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NHS Shake and Soup Meal Plan Trials

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by ventra, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. LittleGreyCat

    LittleGreyCat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a lot of negativity on here.

    As others have said, this seems to be the Newcastle Diet which has gradually become established as one way to potentially reverse T2,
    This should be welcomed as a good thing if people can be encouraged to loose a lot of weight quickly.
    There are good words written about moving to a sustainable diet after the end of the initial phase. Again standard Newcastle Diet.
    Why not watch to see how well this works, and cheer the participants on?

    I am assuming that once this gets under way it will shine a spotlight on how successful different ways of eating are at keeping the weight off and maintaining metabolic health.
    At which point LCHF might get a chance to shine.
    However other eating approaches are also available and if they work, great!
    This forum generally loves LCHF but please remember that it isn't the only way, and it doesn't make all other approaches wrong.
     
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  2. copilost

    copilost Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I respect your optimism! I agree that anything that gives realistic hope and options to T2 people should be supported but I worry that the pervasive conflation of weight and T2 is ultimately very damaging. Also solutions that rely on yet more involvement of the food "industry" trouble me.
     
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  3. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    Depending on the brand of meal replacement products used it is possible that they can be a low carb as well as low calorie diet. Some I have used have given a total of 45g carbs a day. What is often overlooked is that although not specifically mentioned in literature (though I haven’t checked for a while) is that the very low calorie / meal replacement diets are designed to induce ketosis. The initial methodology I used in 2011, (before Taylor et al had got beyond the initial research trial, but emulating the method they used with support of my GP) insisted that I achieve ketosis in first week. Also that throughout the calorie restricted phase I remain in ketosis. I believe that due to ketosis, after day 2 I did not feel hungry, deprived, or indeed any other negative feeling. I was exercising in swimming pool for at least an hour a day, sometimes more, and felt very well.

    I do think very low calorie diets have their place in the methods to treat T2 and / or obesity. What I take issue with is having a half baked plan to just give people free diet products for up to 12 weeks without adequate preparation or support, or follow on monitoring, and useful education. That is as necessary for the HCPs as for the patients.
     
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  4. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I watched this report on UK media today, and in all cases they stated that it was leading to T2D Remission simply by making diet changes, That is an amazing volte face that I am happy to endorse since if successful it will open the door to other dietary interventions and the HCP's will take notice and be obliged to support. It will then get written into the NICE guidelines and set in stone that diets can be offered as first line treatment.

    That is the Golden Goose for us. Finally. I can accept it as a first step since we have the science that shows it works, and we can understand the mechanism that makes it work. It is a valid pathway to Remission but as has been discussed, should not extend beyond the stated timescale, and that is indeed a weakness if there is insufficient proper and viable follow up advice,

    Also as has also been admitted in the Forum, it s effect can be undone by the wrong follow on lifestyle. We need to carry on producing our own testimonials and lobby support for those diets that we also find suitable for use as follow on. Faceache it, tweet it, write emails to NICE and PHC.
     
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  5. Squire Fulwood

    Squire Fulwood Type 2 · Expert

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    This seems to be Prof. Taylor's smoothie treatment and there is no doubt it works but what happens when the smoothies stop or you get sick of them.

    The word that is missing here is sustainability so I cannot predict long term success. The only good thing is that NHS has got the idea that diet plays a part in this. Indeed, we have come far.
     
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  6. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    Is it coincidental that this new for the NHS approach comes shortly after NICE has withdrawn support for the teaspoons of sugar info-graphic as they do not want to be seen to be supporting low carbohydrate diets.
     
  7. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think it is optimistic to suggest that there has been a change of heart by the NHS in support of treating diabetes with diet. Surely, they are treating obesity with diet and treating diabetes by reducing obesity.
     
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  8. Schmoukes

    Schmoukes · Well-Known Member

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    Agree - that’s unfortunate.
     
  9. Schmoukes

    Schmoukes · Well-Known Member

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    Taylor - who’s behind all of this research said he chose the liquid shake diet option ‘randomly’ - all he cared about was inducing 15kg of weight loss. He also says you should use any diet that works for you - and it can be slow or fast weight loss. I’d like to hope that those being offered the soup-and-shake treatment will also be told they have a choice - that it’s not the only way to deal with T2.
     
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  10. Schmoukes

    Schmoukes · Well-Known Member

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    Can you say a bit more about this? I didn’t know that a LCP could be prescribed on the NHS. My experience was that my doc was quite stunned at how low I had gone on carbs and my DN dismissed my daily testing and low carb approach.
     
  11. Squire Fulwood

    Squire Fulwood Type 2 · Expert

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    This caused me to go to BBC news website to see exactly what it was they said and ....

    "Shake diet offered on NHS to fight type 2 diabetes"

    No mention of making you thin.
     
  12. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes and a number of fellow forum members have followed the Newcastle diet very successfully, but some of them have gone on to eating LCHF at the end of the course to be able to maintain their improved status, going back to "normal" eating afterwords doesn't necessarily work.
     
  13. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Schmoukes - What do you want to know? The LCP homepage is here, with links to some success stories and such like, but ask away, or if we're in danger of derailing @ventra 's thread, the it could be an idea to have a dedicated thread.

    https://www.lowcarbprogram.com/
     
  14. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Here are some sentences from that BBC website, with my highlights, which makes me think it is about weight....

    Thousands more people in England with type 2 diabetes will be offered the chance to try a soup-and-shake diet weight-loss plan for free on the NHS.

    People living with type 2 diabetes who are an unhealthy weight and have been diagnosed with the condition in the last six years will be considered for the scheme.

    After a few months on the shakes and soups, when some weight loss has been achieved, solid foods are reintroduced, with support to help the person maintain a nutritious diet and regular exercise.

    "There has never been a more important time to lose weight and put their type 2 diabetes into remission, so it's good news for thousands of people across the country that practical, supportive measures like this are increasingly available on the NHS."

    Bev, who was one of the first patients to benefit from the diet during trials, said: "My goal for the first eight weeks of the low-calorie diet was to lose 5% of my body weight - which I achieved in six weeks - and in total I've lost over 10kg, my type 2 diabetes is now in remission and I no longer have to take any medication - I am over the moon.
     
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  15. Schmoukes

    Schmoukes · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!! I’ll take a look
     
  16. ventra

    ventra Type 2 · Member

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    Right! So I just got a call from the GP (was expecting the DN, so pleasantly surprised!) Its not in my area anyway at the moment, could be about a year before its rolled out(if at all). GP didn't like the sound of it and thought it was short-termism with no real chance of mass success. She said she would prefer to see more on lifestyle & behaviour change: healthier eating choices to reduce calorie intake and more exercise for example.
     
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  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Smart GP (well maybe not the exercise part!).
     
  18. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Personally, I agree with your GP (congrats on finding on with such a helpful attitude).
    Although, having said that, a diet with a short term kick start accompanied by longer term lifestyle and behavioural changes might be an excellent option.
     
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  19. ventra

    ventra Type 2 · Member

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    I though that also, big issue for me is the behaviour changes! I struggle with sticking to it. Mainly through boredom I reckon!
     
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    That's the problem with eating.. it's something we have to do so trying to reduce amounts drastically is hard.

    Low carb means you are less likely to get hungry so less likely to want to go "off piste".
    Eating mainly fat and protein means you are satiated more easily, stay fuller for longer and brings blood sugars down nicely.
    Win, win, win!
     
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