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NHS Shake and Soup Meal Plan Trials

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by ventra, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. ventra

    ventra Type 2 · Member

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    Good Morning,

    Just been reading about the NHS Shake and Soup plan in this mornings news! Does anyone have any experience of it? How is it going and what sort of GP support is offered?

    ATB

    Bill
     
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  2. Buzzer81

    Buzzer81 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bill,

    Yes I saw that in various news sources this morning!

    My verdict is..... what a waste of time, effort and money!!!! Also, could be dangerous as those types of diets tend to result in extreme weight loss followed by extreme weight gain..... all the whole, completely missing the real problem is diabetics face.

    It totally proves that the NHS is committed to sticking to the wrong path and I don’t believe for one second this will have a positive outcome
     
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  3. ert

    ert Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    It's ignoring the evidence that type 2 diabetes is a metabolic syndrome, where one can't process carbohydrates.
     
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  4. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    Let me guess, it's all about calories?
     
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  5. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    My own personal opinion is that as usual the NHS thinks it is ALL about people being overweight so all that is required is some barmy fad diet, ie the shakes, we know people will lose weight and hey presto, their body's ability to process carbs might kick in again so they can then claim it was all down to the shakes. I do wish they would be more radical and introduce something that they have never done before....an experiment where the very same people go LCHF. If that proved successful (as proven by countless on this site) then I am convinced it would give hope to many people who are constantly being led to feel that an avoidance of type 2 means a lifetime of misery and a tasteless milkshake.
     
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  6. Buzzer81

    Buzzer81 · Well-Known Member

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    So true! I feel for the poor suckers who are out in this. People who have faith in their doctor..... like me! Or like I used to be.... now I realise I’m going to have to educate them myself!! Right, eggs and bacon for me!
     
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  7. Schmoukes

    Schmoukes · Well-Known Member

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    I’m pleased that the NHS seems to be accepting that T2 is reversible without meds. And that they’re not recommending toast and porridge for breakfast :). They did have good results from the research that’s led to this. But I do think it’s dangerous to signal that soup and shake plans are the key to ending diabetes. The research their plan is based on says 15kg of weight loss matters and it doesn’t matter how you do it. I think many of us on this forum had normal or pre-diabetes blood sugar levels well before losing 15kg on LCHF diets.
     
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  8. sno0opy

    sno0opy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I will add - i know lots of people here go a different way, or it dosnt work for them. But there are some, maybe many cases that could be resolved by weight loss and exercise. If you have already lost the weight down to a healthy BMI and are doing the recommended mins of exercise a week and still are stuck then i understand the dilemma. If not, its hard to say that it wouldn't work if you did it, all i can say is that it worked for me. (the fact its a metabolic condition is accurate, but if that condition is triggered my high BMI and low muscle mass leading to high insulin resistance then it can be fixed by changing those under lying issues provided your still producing enough insulin).

    I was HBA1C 87, now at 30 by loosing weight and exercising more. Yes i changed my diet drastically, but i could if i wanted eat lots of carbs now because my system is able to cope with it - it couldn't before.

    The trick with any of it, is that if you go low calorie, but dont exercise then as soon as you start eating more again you pile weight on. if you go low calorie and exercise then you have more control over two aspects. Like i can eat more one day but i have that in my mind when im excersising and maybe do that extra 30mins. Over all its a totally lifestyle change and i have found it works.

    So im not saying others experiences here are wrong, im just saying it should only be judged by people have done it and done it properly to the letter and its not worked. I certainly think if you just follow the NHS diet you wont get better, but Diabetes is not a condition that requires LCHF to manage as the only option.

    Its like some one saying LCHF does not work because i tried it for a few weeks and had the odd sarnie and baked potato and my bloods were still high and i didn't loose weight. You have to commit to the treatment and follow it properly, i would guess the new NHS method may well help some people get them selves out of the care system so good on the NHS for funding it.
     
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  9. Lemonie

    Lemonie Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am very interested in trying this. 2 years ish ago I lost 6.5 stone slowly and became diet controlled only from insulin. I was really fit but had 3 injuries on the trot and ended up putting it all back on. Someone I knew did the Cambridge Diet at the same time, lost a similar amount and has kept it off. What works for one does not work for another. Does anybody know which areas are using this at the moment?
     
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  10. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

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    Well, I guess I am one of the ‘poor suckers’. Lost 49kg using the total food replacement method (aka Newcastle diet) in 2011. Yes, following a period of enforced inactivity, and recommended NHS diet regained some 20kg.
    Since discovering Low carb higher fat I have maintained weight, with some small fluctuations. Tried intermittent fasting, keto, and felt quite ill, with increased levels of potassium in blood. With IF I did lose weight, but regained within a week or two of eating the LCHF way.Last two years have struggled to remain in non-diabetes HbA1c levels, even with less than 60g of carbs a day.

    With the threat of Covid in the mix, and still needing to lose some weight, I have, once again , used a very low calorie method. Have shed 7kg in 4 weeks. Not seeing any BG measurements above 6.5, and average is 5.4, during that time.

    Whilst I can see benefits of the method, (and I know there will be the naysayers, that is their prerogative, but hope that the baby won’t be thrown out with bath water) what is missing is follow on advice. No use to anyone to crash diet, then follow the ‘healthycarb regime’ that is being advised by our GPs. I fear that overweight people with T2 will be persuaded that this soup and shake 12 week diet will be a one off, quick fix. Returning to high carb, no matter how healthy we are being told, will not keep blood glucose levels stable and healthy.

    It is most unfortunatethat Low carb method is not being promoted, and Dr Unwin’s sugar equivalent infographic is being discredited. To be offered support with a Low Carb way of eating would be a viable alternative, or , indeed, the ideal follow on way of eating for those who choose the soup and shake weight loss regime.
     
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  11. sno0opy

    sno0opy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think its national, i would guess it will be those with a high BMi, High HBA1c and on Medication will be the target. They will prob target a mix of age groups but more likely target people who are younger.
     
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  12. TriciaWs

    TriciaWs Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that all the studies done on very low calorie 'instead' of low carb are in fact low carb. I cannot see how they could be any thing else and maintain the necessary protein intake.
    So low carb and hungry.
    And having failed to retrain onto a long term sustainable diet that will keep T2 in remission?
    Why does the NHS keep ignoring the research on low carb? Instead we have yet another private company profiting from selling the NHS (ie taxpayers) a gimmicky diet supplement.
     
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  13. Schmoukes

    Schmoukes · Well-Known Member

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    Hi - it’s not national yet. Just 5000 people.
    “The sites rolling out the low-calorie diet programme are:

    North East and Yorkshire: South Yorkshire & Bassetlaw ICS, and Humber Coast & Vale STP
    North West: Greater Manchester Health & Social Care Partnership
    South East: Frimley Health and Care STP
    South West: Gloucestershire STP
    Midlands (West and East): Derbyshire STP, and Birmingham and Solihull STP
    East of England: Bedfordshire, Luton and Milton Keynes (BLMK) ICS
    London: North East London, and North Central London”
     
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  14. Schmoukes

    Schmoukes · Well-Known Member

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    Good point TriciaWs - the initial weight loss diet probably is low carb as well as low cal. They do plan to help people introduce proper food following the soup and shake shock. In the original research they found 1 in 2 people fell off the waggon and had to return to the shakes. They define falling off the wagon as regaining 4kg.
     
  15. Crosswordpuzzler

    Crosswordpuzzler · Member

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    Personally I was diagnosed type two in 2003. By 2006 I was using insulin.(novomox 30).
    About 3 months ago ,finding last years shorts were too tight, I decided to lose weight.
    I found this quite easy,less food and more exercise; 2 x 3 1/4 mile dog walks light weights and so on. I aimed at 1200 calorie intake a day.
    Then the hypos started, I reduced the insulin from some 15/18 units per meal to 6 or 9.i was also taking metformin 850 mg three times, at meals

    Two weeks ago I contacted the DN at my local surgery.. the insulin is now reduced to breakfast and tea time x 6 units and the metformin reduced to 500mg dosage.

    My blood sugar readings have been interesting.....5 to 7 amol in June 5 to 7.3 over the last two weeks before breakfast .

    I have given up bread , rice and pasta. But other wise eat lots on the Bernstein 'forbidden list' (which I discovered yesterday)

    I have lost 12 kilo since mid June, it would seem that carb reduction and weight loss are the way to go, for me at least.
     
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  16. ventra

    ventra Type 2 · Member

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    Thanks for the replies. Always good to get a cross-section of views. No replies from anyone that has been on the trial though. I have a telephone appointment with my DN on Thursday to discuss in more detail. I am not expecting earth shattering information though.
     
  17. premclaire

    premclaire · Newbie

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    There is a well documented study by professor Roy Taylor showing the connection with losing weight quickly on a 800 calorie died and reversing diabetes. read the book by Proffessor Taylor " Life without diabetes" published in 2020
     
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  18. premclaire

    premclaire · Newbie

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    I don't think this is a waste of time
     
  19. stuffedolive

    stuffedolive Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that this 8-week very low calorie soup and shake diet is just a development of the Newcastle diet which was developed at Newcastle university some 8 years ago and has been reported on in the media periodically ever since. I think there was an NHS funded research project on this (DiRect?) that reported in 2017, and then nearly 18months ago back in May last year the government announced a similar trial to the one they have just announced. Why announce something only once if you can get kudos for announcing it twice, eh!
    As ever the NHS is behind the curve on diabetes, at least 8 years in this case, and then as others have said, looking for a magic bullet rather than looking for the more difficult one of informed behaviour change. These crash diets can only be used once. They have to be followed by a sustainable pattern of eating which does not then lead to further weight gain. Depending on the individual that may involve some carbs, but it has to be different to what that persons diet had been before. I just wish that the DoH would make this clear.
     
  20. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Tricia - Bearing in mind that this site's Low Carb Programme (LCP) is approved for prescribing on the NHS and the App is hosted by the NHS Digital Library. Achieving that was on the back of many reviews, due diligence and challenges. To be there at all is a sign of support and recognising the results achieved by the LCP's members.

    The LCP is also available to anyone, on subscription, so if a medic will not prescribe it, the way is not barred for those living with diabetes, prediabetes or obesity.
     
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