Type 2 Nutritional ketosis and lack of body fat

[nsh2111]

Hello,

I have read online that nutritional ketosis is when your body uses fats around your organs to feed itself and provides the benefit of cleaning.

How would a person with 13%- 14% body fat and no weight to loose enter this state then? I am 5' 7" and weight about 63 Kg. Have not got a lot of fat around most parts of my body except may be some right around centre pf belly button.

I have been LCHF for 6-7 months and have only seen small improvement in BS control( it has not gone worse also so positive)

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this.

 

[Member496333]

I gained lean mass in ketosis. It isn’t about perpetually losing weight. It’s about your body achieving its biological homeostatic optimum through proper regulation of appetite that isn’t skewed by the glucose/insulin yo-yo and leptin resistance

 

[nsh2111]

I gained lean mass in ketosis. It isn’t about perpetually losing weight. It’s about your body achieving its biological homeostatic optimum through proper regulation of appetite that isn’t skewed by the glucose/insulin yo-yo and leptin resistance

Thanks. There are few big words in your reply which I admit I don't know much about.i will have to Google and understand your answer .

I was just wondering whether ketosis is equally beneficial for someone who can't loose further weight

 

[EllieM]

Hello,

I have read online that nutritional ketosis is when your body uses fats around your organs to feed itself and provides the benefit of cleaning.

How would a person with 13%- 14% body fat and no weight to loose enter this state then? I am 5' 7" and weight about 63 Kg. Have not got a lot of fat around most parts of my body except may be some right around centre pf belly button.

I have been LCHF for 6-7 months and have only seen small improvement in BS control( it has not gone worse also so positive)

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this.

Are you absolutely certain that you're T2 and not, say, LADA still on honeymoon.

 

[Member496333]

Thanks. There are few big words in your reply which I admit I don't know much about.i will have to Google and understand your answer .

I was just wondering whether ketosis is equally beneficial for someone who can't loose further weight

Sorry for the big words. Happy to clarify anything.

It has most certainly been beneficial for me. As well as reversing my type 2 diabetes, I feel better than I have done my entire adult life. I’m about 3kg heavier than when I was diagnosed T2, but my waist is smaller, so I’ve gained lean mass. Keto was never about weight for me, it was about metabolic health. People in ketosis don’t lose weight forever, they plateau at their biological normal. The body is smart, and if you give it the right tools with which to operate optimally it will tell you when to eat and when to stop. Quite a remarkable machine

 

[nsh2111]

Are you absolutely certain that you're T2 and not, say, LADA still on honeymoon.

How do I know.my gp says I am type 2. I did insuline antibodies test and it came as 2.4 as fasting (I was on lchf for some time ) . So he said it's normal and I am type 2.i have wondered many times why I can't get BS low despite low carb.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi @nsh2111

Nutritional ketosis is simply the state where you are using fat (ketones) as fuel instead of glucose.
It doesn't matter whether that fat comes from your own fat stores, or from dietary fat - the body sees both as fuel sources and can run on both, or either.

So if you don't want to lose body fat, you would need to ensure that you were eating enough dietary fat to supply the fuel you need. That way your body won't raid your existing reserves and further reduce body fat.

This is not a problem I have ever encountered (cough! ) but I imagine that it would take some tweaking of fat intake, and may require adjusting protein and even carbs to find the proportions of foods that will keep you in ketosis without weight loss or gain. Might take a while to find that balance. Some people find that foods with a mix of carbs, protein and fat (such as pate, nuts or low carb protein shakes) help with this, but the trick is to keep portion sizes at a level where ketosis isn't disrupted. Assuming that you want to stay in ketosis all the time.

Hope it works for you, and please come back and tell us how you manage?
There are quite a few members here who struggle to maintain a steady weight, or who may want to gain some body fat while on keto, so your personal experiences may be helpful to them.

 

[kokhongw]

How do I know.my gp says I am type 2. I did insuline antibodies test and it came as 2.4 as fasting (I was on lchf for some time ) . So he said it's normal and I am type 2.i have wondered many times why I can't get BS low despite low carb.

If you are not on medication, have you considered intermittent fasting? Just to see if that changes anything?

 

[EllieM]

If you are not on medication, have you considered intermittent fasting? Just to see if that changes anything?

Is that a good idea for someone who's borderline underweight? (Maybe it is, but I'd be cautious.)

 

[Indy51]

I have been weight stable for a few years now - I eat between 40-80g carbs, but I know I get into ketosis overnight as I eat only 2 meals a day, no snacks and fast anywhere from 13-18 hours depending on my mood and hunger.

 

[nsh2111]

Hi @nsh2111

Nutritional ketosis is simply the state where you are using fat (ketones) as fuel instead of glucose.
It doesn't matter whether that fat comes from your own fat stores, or from dietary fat - the body sees both as fuel sources and can run on both, or either.

So if you don't want to lose body fat, you would need to ensure that you were eating enough dietary fat to supply the fuel you need. That way your body won't raid your existing reserves and further reduce body fat.

This is not a problem I have ever encountered (cough! ) but I imagine that it would take some tweaking of fat intake, and may require adjusting protein and even carbs to find the proportions of foods that will keep you in ketosis without weight loss or gain. Might take a while to find that balance. Some people find that foods with a mix of carbs, protein and fat (such as pate, nuts or low carb protein shakes) help with this, but the trick is to keep portion sizes at a level where ketosis isn't disrupted. Assuming that you want to stay in ketosis all the time.

Hope it works for you, and please come back and tell us how you manage?
There are quite a few members here who struggle to maintain a steady weight, or who may want to gain some body fat while on keto, so your personal experiences may be helpful to them.

I have been maintaining steady weight for last 8 months now and most of it has been in keto .apart from occasional carb binge in form of beer.

I am also doing more resistance training but yet to see big muscles

I will keep keto on for as long as I need to just want to have better BS then my 47 hbac last month.

Interestingly my FBS is always around 6.7 . - 7.0 on keto and before it it used be lower in carb diet.

 

[nsh2111]

If you are not on medication, have you considered intermittent fasting? Just to see if that changes anything?

Yes I have been in few 24 hr fast and I always read low 5s at the end of fast. It's just not sustained after I start eating. It's like my body consider 6-7 as the range to maintain instead of 4-5.

I really need to reset that setting

 

[Member496333]

A non insulin dependent type 2 who has been on a “low” carb diet for a long time and who is still struggling with high blood glucose almost certainly still has hyperinsulinemia. This being the case then either the carbohydrate intake is too high, or they are consuming vast quantities of protein over and above what their body requires to maintain itself.

 

[Ponchu]

Thanks. There are few big words in your reply which I admit I don't know much about.i will have to Google and understand your answer .

I was just wondering whether ketosis is equally beneficial for someone who can't loose further weight

It’s healthy for

Mental health (avoidance of Alzheimer’s) depression, anxiety

Cancer resistance (healthy animal fats)

Lean muscle

Bone density

Teeth and gum health

Low inflammation often protects or reduces impact of arthritis and body aches

Energy levels.


I’m down to 14 or 15% body fat.

Perhaps only 10lbs to lose further. It’s no longer for weight loss for me as it is for optimal health.

 

[Ponchu]

Is that a good idea for someone who's borderline underweight? (Maybe it is, but I'd be cautious.)

I think autophagy is healthy for all but agree that caution and prudence for the underweight.

Interesting that IF can help those w eating disorders.

Healthy fats is so vital.

 

[Member496333]

It’s healthy for

Mental health (avoidance of Alzheimer’s) depression, anxiety

Cancer resistance (healthy animal fats)

Lean muscle

Bone density

Teeth and gum health

Low inflammation often protects or reduces impact of arthritis and body aches

Energy levels.


I’m down to 14 or 15% body fat.

Perhaps only 10lbs to lose further. It’s no longer for weight loss for me as it is for optimal health.

Add to that nail and skin health. Clear, white tipped nails and the complexion of someone twenty years younger

 

[nsh2111]

A non insulin dependent type 2 who has been on a “low” carb diet for a long time and who is still struggling with high blood glucose almost certainly still has hyperinsulinemia. This being the case then either the carbohydrate intake is too high, or they are consuming vast quantities of protein over and above what their body requires to maintain itself.

You may have a point. I will limit the protein and will see if it helps.just struggle to count macro etc. And most keto food are equal in fat and protein

 

[Member496333]

You don’t need to count macros as such, although I understand it can help initially.

Speaking only for myself, my strategy is;

Absolute minimal carbohydrate to the point of there being no need to count. Green overground vegetables only, and some 100% cocoa chocolate occasionally. Protein mindfully around 20-30g per meal but not religiously counted or restricted. Fat to satiety.

I know many will disagree, but for some people protein is a sticking point in minimising insulin secretion. If your body is not using all the amino acids for essential maintenance then some will be excreted by the kidneys, and some will be converted to glucose to either be used for immediate energy or turned to fat for storage.

 

[kokhongw]

I have been maintaining steady weight for last 8 months now and most of it has been in keto .apart from occasional carb binge in form of beer.

I am also doing more resistance training but yet to see big muscles

I will keep keto on for as long as I need to just want to have better BS then my 47 hbac last month.

Interestingly my FBS is always around 6.7 . - 7.0 on keto and before it it used be lower in carb diet.

Sounds like you are doing all the right stuff.
1)Intermittent fasting doesn't necessarily mean that you eat less. It can simply mean eating the same amount of food but within a shorter eating window. And increasing protein can help reduce lean mass loss if that is the concern.

2) Adding to that resistance training to increase skeletal muscle and improve glucose clearance is the right thing to do. That too would need adequate protein.

If your glucose remains fairly stable within 2 mmol range, I wouldn't be too worried.

Best wishes.

 

[kokhongw]

Is that a good idea for someone who's borderline underweight? (Maybe it is, but I'd be cautious.)

It depends on how you interpret intermittent fasting. You can still eat adequate amount within the eating window to reduce/avoid weightloss... that is the flexibility of intermittent fasting vs water fast.