Obsessions on Diabetes

[mgzteed]

One of the problems I have had with this site is to evaluate which views are realistic and which are not.
Please understand, this comment comes from frustration, not a wish to apportion blame to contributors, but as my GP is also a friend I often get to discuss views, especially on diet with her and as I find this low carb idea which flies in the face of NHS dietary policy, worrying. As I find the frequent suggestion to take your own blood sugar levels at regular intervals, even several times around meal times. I appreciate it will provide a great indication of which foods effect ones blood sugar, I also, being never keen to inflict pain on myself, can't yet see it as the must do some seem to suggest.

Am I wrong. Having suffered heart problems for some years, I've lived the diet and reduced my considerable bulk, and yes I still need to take a few more stones off the scale reading. But this business about no bread, no fruit, no cereal and so on I am finding hard to compute, as that's what's reduced my weight by 9 stone now, my waist by 14" and my blood pressure to well managed levels.

I am fortunate that sugar has never been a great love of mine, but fruit is, as is fresh bread as is vegetables and meat and fish. I am not a big fry up fan any more, my cholesterol levels are fine now, but this damnable blood sugar level.

To the best of my knowledge I don't or have not suffered highs or lows yet, in the 9 months since I first suspected a problem, but does that count. Since starting metformin, my need to drink has diminished as has the frequent visits to relieve my bladder

I go for my second Hb1ac test next week, maybe I should have held this rant over until then, but the more I read views expressed on low cards the more frustrated I get, especially when those I see and talk to, my GP, my Diabetes nurse, are not keen.

Its a strange one indeed

 

[totsy]

hya,
it was interesting reading your post,
on this forum we listen to everyones views and try to give good advice, there has been so many arguments on low carb and everybody is more than welcome to their own views, my own diabetic nurse has told me that as long as u have a balanced diet that is what counts
i myself had to go low carb to get anything near decent numbers, then when i started to basal bolus i introduced carbs back in to a certain extent, i do eat fruit and cereal and wholemeal bread most days but not to a high extent, i dont have rice,pasta,yorkshire puddings,dumplings etc as they dont suit my insulin, i end up going way too high,
at this forum we do respect each others views and as with anything we are all different and must do what we can to keep healthy, i myself have lost 5 stone 3, my hba1c is now 5.9 showing that what i do is good for me and if my health/bs started to deteriorate i would look at my diet again and make a choice, i want to see my children grow up and have children , i also dont want to go blind or lose my legs so i have to do what works for me as must everybody else,

 

[Patch]

Hi mgzteed,
Sounds to me like you don't need to worry yourself with Lo-carbing, as you are managing very well on the NHS diet. I don't see why you should be frustrated by lo-carbers, we're not on a crusade to gain members (!) just trying to let people know that there are options. The NHS advice didn't work for me, and I put on a lot of weight, and lost control of my numbers as a result. If I'd known then that lo-carbing would help me, I could have avoided a lot of pain and anguish.

There is a belief that one can become addicted to carbs, and I believe this wholeheatedly. I was a full on carb addict! Once I started lo-carbing, my cravings completely disappeared.

Congratulations on losing 9st - that is amazing!

If you are still frustrated, why not do a little reading up on lo-carb that is written from a non-biased point of view? There are plenty of links to papers/repost on this very site. I think you'll be surprised at what actually is, and what is not allowed.

The biggest obstacle lo-carbing has to overcome is the myth that surrounds it that all you are allowed to eat is meat, fish, eggs and cheese. This is a lie that is continually spread, and lo-carbers can enjoy many fruits and vegetables, and some even make lo-carb bread.

You sound like a very intelligent person, perfectly able to make up your own mind, but please try to research the lo-carb lifestyle before you condemn it.

 

[hanadr]

Dear mgzteed
I understand you discussing everything with your GP. I do so with mine.( who says he is coming round to my point of view.)
the thing you really need to find out is what works for you. I started out with the balanced diet philosophy and it did me no good. I've gone to low carb, reduced my medication and my weight and improved my blood chemistry. No wonder I'm convinced.
Most of my blood chemistry is non-diabetic, and I've been diagnosed long enough for that to have disappeard. My slight retinopathy is healing and I have no other issues.
Thing is:
most of the people on this forum are diabetics and LIVE the condition, most GP are NOT and are quite inclined to blame the patient and not to believe patients if things start to go wrong.
Look at the success stories thread.
Very few people do well on anything other than low carb. With the notable exception of a few low GI dieters.
I don't think there's anyone posted on the successes thread who has done really well on the "eat plenty of complex carbs" regime. and we often ask for anyone who has some other way of eating and is conrolling diabetes successfully to let us know. To my knowledge, no-one has yet.
I'm not obsessed, but I am focussed. My health depends on it. I also fund my test strips on my OAP, because then I know quickly if I need to change anything and don't have to wait months to find something has gone wrong. Latest Hb A1 is 5.6%
Remember: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating"

 

[Patch]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating

Sugar free pudding, I hope... :wink:

 

[tubolard]

Congratulations on all your successes to date.

All we are able to advocate is what has worked for us as individuals. Perhaps I am reading your post wrong, but there is no compulsion, how each of us manage our condition is down to us.

Your GP/friend may not think testing on a regular basis is a good idea for type 2s for a variety of reasons, and you may agree with them - that is your prerogative. We do, however as NHS patients, have expectations about how we get treated, and being given the resources to self test is one of my expectations, especially as diet plays such a huge role in blood glucose management.

I think I said in response to your introductory thread that there isn't a one-size-fits all diet for people with diabetes, how you modify your diet (or not) is down to you, to what extent you reduce carbs (or not) is down to you - it is clear though that the BDA and diabetes educators acknowledge the role carbs play in BG manage and to quote from one their leaflets:

Being aware of carbohydrate foods and food portion sizes is important if you have Type 2 diabetes

One of the goals of the X-pert course for type 2s is to show that:

...for optimum diabetes control it is not the amount of sugar in food or drink, but the quantity and quality of carbohydrate

It is clear that some health care professionals do not support a low carb regime, but an equally important treatment expectation is that we play as equally an important role in the treatment of our condition as our health care team does, how each of us manage our diet should be respected by our health care teams.

The important thing is that you are aware of how your body reacts to your regime. It is equally important that you are comfortable with the treatment you are receiving and that you are happy with the progress you are making.

Regards, Tubs.

 

[Trinkwasser]

My experience of many newsgroups and forums over many years is that a very small number of diabetics actually do make the Heart Healthy diet work, but they are in an extreme minority compared to the people whose condition is worsened. Genetic variability.

One diabetic ripped me a new ******* for being "obsessive" and told me her Medical Professionals gave her all the test strips she asked for, but had told her that running up to 10 after meals was perfectly acceptable.

Strangely she did not relate her poor control to her stroke or her angina.

My major problem was with my lipids, which the dietician's obsession with dietary fat made considerable worse, and which carb control has returned to somewhere between good and excellent.

This was the key

http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

 

[mikeyuk]

It does kind of annoy me when GPs and Nurses etc really don't understand. They dispense advice but get to go home at the end of the day and forget all about it. We live it 24/7 and it really wears you down.

I do what works for me. For 16 years since I was 11 I rigidly followed my doctors advice. My HBa1c was usually fairly decent yet I had retinopathy, and each time I went to the drs seemed like complications were advancing out of my control.

I even said to my endo not so long ago that I felt terrible after meals so I started testing 1 hr / 2 hr afterwards and my levels were spiking to 12. She actually said don't test so much, even non diabetics spike and not to worry about it. This is an endo speaking. Well all I had to go on were my own feelings and experiences, and I actually started skipping meals because it was easier to control.

I was sick of trying my hardest to control it, and even without eating the standard NoNos my BS would spike all over the place. I don't think those who do not have diabetes can understand the constant grind and feeling of letting yourself down whenever your levels spike. The constant feeling of not being in control of your BS no matter how hard you try, and feeling yourself slowly degrade day by day.

Then to cap it all off I get my friends, Gp, Nurses and even a snidey opthamologist treating me like its some lame disease that can easily be controlled by not eating sugar. I even had a diabetic nurse telling me that HBa1c was excellent and she didn't think her own HBa1c would be under 6, so not to even bother aiming for the 5s.

Low carb was something I guess I'd realised in my own mind before I quite coincidently came accross Dr Bernstein. And so far its helping me. If its something I can stick at or whatever remains to be seen, but its definitely better than the alternative. I do miss some things, other things not so much. I don't miss the horrible feeling id get every peak with potatoes, but I do miss my cheese on toast and crisps with dip.

I do worry that it is against convention, but I've went for so long the other way with the progressive problems, complications and depression it has brought that I just really don't care any more what people say. Its working for me, and that's all that matters.

 

[Patch]

Sounds like it's working out pretty well for you, mikeyuk. I know exactly what you mean wrt the terrible feeling you get when your numbers run out of control.

Ain't it great when you find something that works for you? It's a shame that it's taken you so long to find this out. If only the people that are paid to help you had the courage to suggest something different (when the conventional advice was failing you) all those years ago...

 

[wiflib]

Hi mikey.

Cheese on toast is one of my staples. I work shifts and it's one of the few hot things available to me at work. I also love it! I'm a low carber so my bread of choice is Nimble at 8 - 9g a slice, smothered in butter and cheese previously melted in the microwave. Cheaper and quicker than a grill. I sometimes finely chop a bit of onion and put the cheese on top to melt and then pour this on my toast.

wiflib

 

[mikeyuk]

Interesting, you find this doesnt fluctuate your levels?

Im actually having a hard time working out what I can and cant eat. I tried Ryvta with plenty of cheese, ham an butter which should only be around 8g of carb, yet had high and unpredictable levels afterwards so decided to cut out a lot of things, though would love to phase them back in ^_^

 

[jopar]

I think you find that the diabetics who have good control of there diabetes will have restricted there carb intake to a certain extent, you will find there are some diabetics who prefer to follow a set pre designed diet plan such as Bernstien, Atkins, GI index. Then other diabetics have done similar to me, who sort through and find the foods that give the most problems and restrict or remove depending on how individual foods react…

The only real way of finding out what works and continual to work for us is sadly constant monitoring of how everything is going, so that we can rethink and make adjustments to enable continual good control…

The problem being diabetic and control you can only work out what works for the present, because has you travel on your life journey and new phases and changes come into your life, you find that this can have a effect on your diabetic control… and it is only by the continual monitoring process, that you can decided whether this change is short term, or whether it is a complete change in control they requires a rethink to how you continual to achieve good control…

In many respects yes on one hand it is a obsession, but on the other hand it is the only way that we can continual to maintain good control that hopefully will give us a brighter happier future than some of the data shows for a diabetic..

 

[TheTartanPimpernel]

Relax.

Give up/avoid obsessive testing. Unless you consume one food at a time there can be no guarantee as to what sends sugar levels up and what does not. I have an Italian Godmother and used to eat pasta with good quality olive oil and black pepper. The olive oil and pepper have no impact on sugars. Result, no pasta - or at least only as an infrequent treat.

Control portions and by default you will eliminate/reduce the carbs or whatever it might be that puts the levels up.

Diabetic life is for living - not worrying about.

 

[saz1]

Good post, Pimpernel! I wish I could be restricted with my portions, I so envy you who can! But I can't so I have restricted my carb intake and I don't expect to reintroduce them into my diet at the moment since it is a bit like alcohol to an alcoholic... I have just had to invent alternatives and it will remain to be seen if I can control my carboholism so I can have my favourites again. :wink:

 

[hanadr]

Hi TartanPimpernel
If I did what you suggest, I'd put back the weight I've lost and my BGs would climb instead of being under 6 all the time.
As to portions, the only thing I have in large portions is green leafy veggies.
For a long term T2, your pattern probably wouldn't work