Overnight blood sugar rise

[DiabeticDi]

When I go to bed about 11 and until about 5, I am at an ok level, but from 5 it just goes whoosh! and I can wake up at 12, 13. I can be at 4 before 3am. And if I am 4 at say 2am, I have 10g of carbs. I'm scared that if I increase my Lantus I will go even lower than 4 before 3am, but then is the reason I am shooting up at 5am because I don't have ENOUGH Lantus? It is so frustrating as I don't want to be waking up at 5 just to take a few units of Novorapid.

If I go to bed at a reading of 10ish, then I find I don't go as low before 3.

It is driving me me mad, my nurse says just experiment but I don't have a clue.

 

[Antje77]

Do you take your long acting in the morning or in the evening?

Sounds like Dawn Phenomenon to me, where your liver dumps glucose in your bloodstream in the early hours of the morning in anticipation of the new day.
People on a pump often have their basal rate a bit higher at those hours, and some pumps can even adjust the basal rate depending on BG changes while you sleep.

On injections no such thing of course.

I've had a period of a couple of months where I would shoot up at 5:30 AM every night, thankfully it mostly stopped again by itself, hope this will happen for you as well.
Because starting the day higher than I like every day made me wake up in a bad mood, I did have an alarm going at 5 most nights.

To make it easier to inject without truly waking up I prepared the pen with the amount of insulin I planned to take already set and put within arms reach without having to sit up. When the alarm woke me I could just push down the duvet, grab the pen, remove the cap and inject without turning on the lights or thinking about what I was doing. Cap back on, pen back on the nightstand and back to sleep.

Now it only happens occasionally, but I've since got the Libre2 which alarms me when I rise at night. Annoying, but it does save me from waking up high most of the time. Might be worth seeing if you can get one, although it seems to be a bit luck of the draw.

 

[Jaylee]

When I go to bed about 11 and until about 5, I am at an ok level, but from 5 it just goes whoosh! and I can wake up at 12, 13. I can be at 4 before 3am. And if I am 4 at say 2am, I have 10g of carbs. I'm scared that if I increase my Lantus I will go even lower than 4 before 3am, but then is the reason I am shooting up at 5am because I don't have ENOUGH Lantus? It is so frustrating as I don't want to be waking up at 5 just to take a few units of Novorapid.

If I go to bed at a reading of 10ish, then I find I don't go as low before 3.

It is driving me me mad, my nurse says just experiment but I don't have a clue.

Hi,

OK, I do Lantus. & the stuff can be frustrating.

Firstly, do you use a Libre? I normally shift up during or after my morning routine prepping for work with nill by mouth.
Liver dump. If you do use a sensor? Are you seeing a further drop after the 10g then a rise? Or does your BGs drop no lower than 4mmol?
Could be a slight dump response to a further low, if so?

I do my lantus around 10/11
I my experience, the lows if they occur can happen around 2 & 5am there have been times when I've woke twice both at these times.

 

[DiabeticDi]

Do you take your long acting in the morning or in the evening?

Sounds like Dawn Phenomenon to me, where your liver dumps glucose in your bloodstream in the early hours of the morning in anticipation of the new day.
People on a pump often have their basal rate a bit higher at those hours, and some pumps can even adjust the basal rate depending on BG changes while you sleep.

On injections no such thing of course.

I've had a period of a couple of months where I would shoot up at 5:30 AM every night, thankfully it mostly stopped again by itself, hope this will happen for you as well.
Because starting the day higher than I like every day made me wake up in a bad mood, I did have an alarm going at 5 most nights.

To make it easier to inject without truly waking up I prepared the pen with the amount of insulin I planned to take already set and put within arms reach without having to sit up. When the alarm woke me I could just push down the duvet, grab the pen, remove the cap and inject without turning on the lights or thinking about what I was doing. Cap back on, pen back on the nightstand and back to sleep.

Now it only happens occasionally, but I've since got the Libre2 which alarms me when I rise at night. Annoying, but it does save me from waking up high most of the time. Might be worth seeing if you can get one, although it seems to be a bit luck of the draw.

 

[DiabeticDi]

Hi

Thanks for replying. Yes I do have the Libre 2 and have been on it for nearly 2 months now and this is why I am much more aware of what my sugar is doing overnight. I take Lantus before bed and before breakfast. Unfortunately there is now way I can just wake up and inject and back to sleep within a few minutes, I am partially sighted and I would have to have lights on etc etc and I am not a good sleeper and would not go back to sleep for a couple of hours! It looks like I will have to experiment after all. Thanks for your advice thought

 

[DiabeticDi]

Hi,

OK, I do Lantus. & the stuff can be frustrating.

Firstly, do you use a Libre? I normally shift up during or after my morning routine prepping for work with nill by mouth.
Liver dump. If you do use a sensor? Are you seeing a further drop after the 10g then a rise? Or does your BGs drop no lower than 4mmol?
Could be a slight dump response to a further low, if so?

I do my lantus around 10/11
I my experience, the lows if they occur can happen around 2 & 5am there have been times when I've woke twice both at these times.

 

[DiabeticDi]

Hi

I got the Libre because I have lost hypo awareness and I think that is why I am extremely cautious about how low I go.

For all I know I could have been dropping to 4 and been fine as I would then rise again, but becuase I am scanning more....I am getting up at 2.30, seeing that I am 4 and thinking oh God I am low I need to eat...the alarm doesn't help either! Psychologically I am equating that with low blood sugar, which is a good thing in the day, but is it so good at night? My nurse said the human body in a normal person would drop to about that in the night, so ????

Perhaps I'll just stay up all night, mighty be easier

Thanks.

 

[bree1982]

When I go to bed about 11 and until about 5, I am at an ok level, but from 5 it just goes whoosh! and I can wake up at 12, 13. I can be at 4 before 3am. And if I am 4 at say 2am, I have 10g of carbs. I'm scared that if I increase my Lantus I will go even lower than 4 before 3am, but then is the reason I am shooting up at 5am because I don't have ENOUGH Lantus? It is so frustrating as I don't want to be waking up at 5 just to take a few units of Novorapid.

If I go to bed at a reading of 10ish, then I find I don't go as low before 3.

It is driving me me mad, my nurse says just experiment but I don't have a clue.

Hi,

The very same thing happens to me every day....

around 4am my BG gors from a controlled number 5-8, then when l get up at 730am they are 12-17.

I was taking 10 units of Novorapid with any food just to keep them under 10 at 5am most mornings, but the broken sleep is horrendous...

My consultant told me the only thing that would sort, would be a pump, then told me l would be waiting around 2 years for the pump and im immigrating to the usa hopefully early next year, so no joy....

Brendan

 

[LionChild]

Hi

Thanks for replying. Yes I do have the Libre 2 and have been on it for nearly 2 months now and this is why I am much more aware of what my sugar is doing overnight. I take Lantus before bed and before breakfast. Unfortunately there is now way I can just wake up and inject and back to sleep within a few minutes, I am partially sighted and I would have to have lights on etc etc and I am not a good sleeper and would not go back to sleep for a couple of hours! It looks like I will have to experiment after all. Thanks for your advice thought

Would having a pump help you?

 

[LionChild]

Hi

I got the Libre because I have lost hypo awareness and I think that is why I am extremely cautious about how low I go.

For all I know I could have been dropping to 4 and been fine as I would then rise again, but becuase I am scanning more....I am getting up at 2.30, seeing that I am 4 and thinking oh God I am low I need to eat...the alarm doesn't help either! Psychologically I am equating that with low blood sugar, which is a good thing in the day, but is it so good at night? My nurse said the human body in a normal person would drop to about that in the night, so ????

Perhaps I'll just stay up all night, mighty be easier

Thanks.

If when I go to bed, (at around 11pm), my BG is lower than say 5.8, I will have a couple of squares of dark chocolate. (85% cocoa solid) This usually prevents hypos for me, as the chocolate has a long lasting affect on BG. It does not seem to bring up BG too high either, by that I mean beyond 10. How about trying a couple of squares of chocolate before you go to sleep in these circumstances?

 

[LionChild]

When I go to bed about 11 and until about 5, I am at an ok level, but from 5 it just goes whoosh! and I can wake up at 12, 13. I can be at 4 before 3am. And if I am 4 at say 2am, I have 10g of carbs. I'm scared that if I increase my Lantus I will go even lower than 4 before 3am, but then is the reason I am shooting up at 5am because I don't have ENOUGH Lantus? It is so frustrating as I don't want to be waking up at 5 just to take a few units of Novorapid.

If I go to bed at a reading of 10ish, then I find I don't go as low before 3.

It is driving me me mad, my nurse says just experiment but I don't have a clue.

Well unless the nurse has type 1 herself, she may not realise how hazardous it feels to you. I have read that actually having something to eat (like dark chocolate) before you go to sleep might actually STOP your BG from rising so high as you say at around 5? This seems to be because the body feels it has enough glucose at that time, and does not need to throw out more from the liver. Consequently, though it might seem counter intuitive, your body's BG remains more stable. I am not saying the sudden rise wont still happen, but it might be less marked if you have something to eat before going to sleep? Something that will continue to keep BG level , like a couple of pieces of chocolate? But also take note before doing this, that your level is not already high? It IS a bit of a juggling act, it's true. When you say you have carbs, I wonder what carbs you eat? That may also make a measurable different in the BG result. Do try some dark chocolate!

 

[LionChild]

Hi,

The very same thing happens to me every day....

around 4am my BG gors from a controlled number 5-8, then when l get up at 730am they are 12-17.

I was taking 10 units of Novorapid with any food just to keep them under 10 at 5am most mornings, but the broken sleep is horrendous...

My consultant told me the only thing that would sort, would be a pump, then told me l would be waiting around 2 years for the pump and im immigrating to the usa hopefully early next year, so no joy....

Brendan

Well I am not sure that the ONLY thing that would sort this out, would be a pump. Have you read Bernstein's book? There are many variables that influence your BG, and you might find some tips in his work? The Consultants often speak with great confidence as if they know what to do, but frankly , unless they have the experience of being a type 1 and having to cope with all this, I do not believe they can possibly know all the details of your situation.

 

[DiabeticDi]

Hi,

The very same thing happens to me every day....

around 4am my BG gors from a controlled number 5-8, then when l get up at 730am they are 12-17.

I was taking 10 units of Novorapid with any food just to keep them under 10 at 5am most mornings, but the broken sleep is horrendous...

My consultant told me the only thing that would sort, would be a pump, then told me l would be waiting around 2 years for the pump and im immigrating to the usa hopefully early next year, so no joy....

Brendan

 

[DiabeticDi]

Hi

Thanks for replying. Yes I do think the only answer is a pump but I'm not sure I would get that, not sure if I want it anyway. The sleep disruption of waking up at 5, injecting and then sleeping for a further 2 hours would be absolute rubbish and would probably do me more harm than having my sugar too high for a couple of hours!

 

[DiabeticDi]

Would having a pump help you?

 

[DiabeticDi]

Presumably it would, I don't know much about them, my nurses have never suggested one and the waiting list is a long time so if there was any way I could cope with the problem without one then it would be good.

 

[LionChild]

Presumably it would, I don't know much about them, my nurses have never suggested one and the waiting list is a long time so if there was any way I could cope with the problem without one then it would be good.

I don't know much about pumps either except that I have read that sometimes the tube that goes into you can lead to infection, but maybe the more up to date versions of the pump have less of a problem in that respect, but I would rather not have anything stuck in me any bigger than the sensor I already wear. Also, as I understand it, even with a pump, you have to set the insulin /carb ratio yourself before eating I think? And sometimes they can go horribly wrong. I may be overstating this, but for myself I would rather be consciously in charge of my insulin application. If technology advances sufficiently to offer me something better than the Libre 2 that I am already using, I will grab with both hands, but so far I am not persuaded that there is anything.
If my comments are inaccurate re. pumps, please someone tell us so!?

 

[markforest5]

I don't know much about pumps either except that I have read that sometimes the tube that goes into you can lead to infection, but maybe the more up to date versions of the pump have less of a problem in that respect, but I would rather not have anything stuck in me any bigger than the sensor I already wear. Also, as I understand it, even with a pump, you have to set the insulin /carb ratio yourself before eating I think? And sometimes they can go horribly wrong. I may be overstating this, but for myself I would rather be consciously in charge of my insulin application. If technology advances sufficiently to offer me something better than the Libre 2 that I am already using, I will grab with both hands, but so far I am not persuaded that there is anything.
If my comments are inaccurate re. pumps, please someone tell us so!?

 

[JMoli]

When I go to bed about 11 and until about 5, I am at an ok level, but from 5 it just goes whoosh! and I can wake up at 12, 13. I can be at 4 before 3am. And if I am 4 at say 2am, I have 10g of carbs. I'm scared that if I increase my Lantus I will go even lower than 4 before 3am, but then is the reason I am shooting up at 5am because I don't have ENOUGH Lantus? It is so frustrating as I don't want to be waking up at 5 just to take a few units of Novorapid.

If I go to bed at a reading of 10ish, then I find I don't go as low before 3.

It is driving me me mad, my nurse says just experiment but I don't have a clue.

Hi, it’s just started happening with me for the last week. I was always ‘foot on the floor’ before this but now I rise at 4 am, I can see what’s happening on the Libre. This is much harder to manage, good to read the comments and might help with getting a pump by the look of it. I stumbled upon a longer pre-bolus for breakfast yesterday which helped as I wasn’t sure how to eat when I was this high in the morning. Are you finding eating tricky when you wake?

 

[DiabeticDi]

Hi, it’s just started happening with me for the last week. I was always ‘foot on the floor’ before this but now I rise at 4 am, I can see what’s happening on the Libre. This is much harder to manage, good to read the comments and might help with getting a pump by the look of it. I stumbled upon a longer pre-bolus for breakfast yesterday which helped as I wasn’t sure how to eat when I was this high in the morning. Are you finding eating tricky when you wake?