• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Overnight Highs

C

cagnew

Newbie
Messages
4
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hi

I'm new to this forum & not really sure how it all works, I did watch the very useful videos & read a lot of posts so here goes..


My name is Caroline & I have been T2 for several years, sometimes controlled other times not so…yes, the diabetes too…


I was very poorly at the end of last year & beginning of this year. So as I was recovering, I decided it was time to change & look after myself. However, I am confused.


I am taking several medications to lower my blood sugars and they seem to be working extremely well during the day, however, overnight is a problem. I am taking 2 Metformin Slow Release tablets at bedtime, however, even though I am not eating or drinking overnight, my bs rises and on waking, it can be up as high as 9-12. I test my bs throughout the day and overnight and have seen no pattern. It doesn’t seem to matter whether I have carbs with dinner or not, nor does it matter if I have a snack before bed or not.


My diet is very restricted and I have omitted fruit, all biscuits and other sugary delights from my diet as it was sending my bs through the roof. I eat a very healthy diet of fish, meat, and vegetables. My practice nurse has advised me to only have 3 meals a day and no snacking in between to see if that helps. I generally need to have some form of carbs to get me through to lunch and dinner. Oatcakes are my friends.


I have read the “BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS” but that doesn’t shed any light on my issue, but it is very useful.


I would appreciate any advice or help that anyone can offer.


Thanks in advance
 
You're welcome :) Hopefully, some Type 2s will be along later in the evening to say what helps them. I'm a Type 1 on insulin so am in a slightly different situation.
 
cagnew said:
Hi

I'm new to this forum & not really sure how it all works, I did watch the very useful videos & read a lot of posts so here goes..


My name is Caroline & I have been T2 for several years, sometimes controlled other times not so…yes, the diabetes too…


I was very poorly at the end of last year & beginning of this year. So as I was recovering, I decided it was time to change & look after myself. However, I am confused.


I am taking several medications to lower my blood sugars and they seem to be working extremely well during the day, however, overnight is a problem. I am taking 2 Metformin Slow Release tablets at bedtime, however, even though I am not eating or drinking overnight, my bs rises and on waking, it can be up as high as 9-12. I test my bs throughout the day and overnight and have seen no pattern. It doesn’t seem to matter whether I have carbs with dinner or not, nor does it matter if I have a snack before bed or not.


My diet is very restricted and I have omitted fruit, all biscuits and other sugary delights from my diet as it was sending my bs through the roof. I eat a very healthy diet of fish, meat, and vegetables. My practice nurse has advised me to only have 3 meals a day and no snacking in between to see if that helps. I generally need to have some form of carbs to get me through to lunch and dinner. Oatcakes are my friends.


I have read the “BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS” but that doesn’t shed any light on my issue, but it is very useful.


I would appreciate any advice or help that anyone can offer.


Thanks in advance
Click to expand...


I'm not able to be certain of this, but I would suggest you may be experiencing Dawn Phenomenon; sometimes referred to as DP. It might have been helpful to know what sort of blood ranges you have for the rest of the day, but I'll assume they're a bit lower, but not too low.

By way of a simple, brief explanation, DP makes your blood sugars rise in the period just before you get up, but can last a few minutes or a phew hours, depending on your body. DP is absolutely natural, and it's our body's way of getting itself ready for the day ahead. The sugars go up, due to our liver releasing glucose. Not everyone gets it, some to a very minor degree (that would be me) and some it can be quite a rise.

The bad news is it can frustrating to pin down to any certainty, because you really need to be testing when you're asleep (you can see how that could be tricky!) and for a few hours afer waking, until your blood numbers reduce.

The good news is that for most folks, the DP impact on their bloods doesn't last long. Most who manage to do good testing - often using something like the Abbott Freestyle Libre - find the rise occurs just before they wake, and breaking their fast ends the impact, so the overall impact is very modest.

There are a lot of "ifs and buts" to DP, but if you do a search on the forum you'll find loads of threads and posts on it, and of course Dr Google has a lot to say on it.

Good luck with it all.
 
Hi @cagnew .

The 'liver dump' commonly known for the DP is very inconvenient. Even none diabetics get it.
There are little techniques which can appease the liver from dumping so much seeing that we type2s can do without its help. I've discovered recently these haven't caused any adverse affect on my liver enzymes. (Previously had fatty liver with huge enzyme output).
You will have to check with your nurse but maybe your metformin needs to be taken at a better time? Which is you're heaviest meal and is it a carby meal?
Some find having carbs earlier in the day gives your activity and meds a chance to do its best.
Only once you have low carbbed for about 2 weeks does the nack of having a protein nibble before bed to con your liver not to dump be so effective.
Thirdly testing your fbg in bed before rising gives a more accurate fbg reading.
On leaving your bed nibble on something not carb will put off the dump from occuring.
Myself i rise and make a creamy decaf coffee then take son to school, then have breakfast when I'm ready to eat properly. This gives me the chance to make a fried breakfast or prepare an early well made lunch.
I hope these tit bits make you aware of how the liver can be conned into not dumping, or dumping just a little.
My liver results yesterday proved that I don't need to find a release for my livers glucagen. It finds its own way.
I hope this helps.
 
Thank you all so much for your help.

@AndBreathe by lunchtime my levels are usually between 4.2 - 6.5 with carbs for breakfast, then usually 5.2 - 7.6 before dinner. By bedtime they vary depending on whether I have carbs or not (without carbs 5.9 - 8.2) (with carbs up to 10 or 11).

@ickihun I have only started taking Metformin SR over the last couple of months and used to take it in the morning but it seems to be more effective for me in the evenings. My heaviest meal is in the evening and varies day to day whether I have carbs or not. I didn't know anything about Dawn Phenomenon & have been testing my bs when I'm up through the night to go to the loo. I'll now test it before I get up!! Oh and go on low carb evening meals.

I really appreciate you all taking the time out of your lives to reply.

Thanks again
 
AndBreathe said:
I'm not able to be certain of this, but I would suggest you may be experiencing Dawn Phenomenon; sometimes referred to as DP. It might have been helpful to know what sort of blood ranges you have for the rest of the day, but I'll assume they're a bit lower, but not too low.

By way of a simple, brief explanation, DP makes your blood sugars rise in the period just before you get up, but can last a few minutes or a phew hours, depending on your body. DP is absolutely natural, and it's our body's way of getting itself ready for the day ahead. The sugars go up, due to our liver releasing glucose. Not everyone gets it, some to a very minor degree (that would be me) and some it can be quite a rise.

The bad news is it can frustrating to pin down to any certainty, because you really need to be testing when you're asleep (you can see how that could be tricky!) and for a few hours afer waking, until your blood numbers reduce.

The good news is that for most folks, the DP impact on their bloods doesn't last long. Most who manage to do good testing - often using something like the Abbott Freestyle Libre - find the rise occurs just before they wake, and breaking their fast ends the impact, so the overall impact is very modest.

There are a lot of "ifs and buts" to DP, but if you do a search on the forum you'll find loads of threads and posts on it, and of course Dr Google has a lot to say on it.

Good luck with it all.
Click to expand...

AndBreathe gets to the nub of this phenomenon superbly.

All I can add, is that my DP dissipated as I progressed with my Low Carb High Fat lifestyle diet. Additionally I still get up first thing, test my BG and immediately have a coffee with a slug of double cream which is the lowest carb cream 1.6g per 100ml, but acts as a food on your system so stops any rise in BG.

I hope this helps:)


Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum
 
Hi. Can you let us know how old you are and whether your BMI is good. The possibility of being Late onset T1 is always there if you are younger and slim and find blood sugar control difficult. With regard to needing carbs to get you thru lunch I would try to substitute cheese for example instead?
 
I'm a young 44year old & my BMI is not good. I'll try the cheese instead of carbs.
I had gestational diabetes when I was younger too.

Thanks for replying & your help.


Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum
 
Back
Top