PHE say NOF advice to eat high fat is irresponsible

[Oldvatr]

Yeah, it's dead simple that medicine, why they need to study for all those years to do it is beyond me. Brain surgery? Easy - cut their head open: take the bad bits out: sew 'em up again. Nutrition? Eat less if you're fat; Eat more if you're too thin; Diabetes? Well, I WAS eating lots of fat and very few carbs, getting my blood sugar down to normal, blood pressure down; Cholesterol within normal ranges, but now you've given us the ultimate truth without all the bother of that messy science with their 'proof' and 'evidence' and all that other intellectual stuff clever people who work full time at it are always going on about - I'll clearly have to rethink.

I think I detect a hint of heavy sarcasm here. Mind you, the boffins supporting the PHE stance one wonders what they studied. Or why? But they earn more than you and I put together, so it was obviously worth it. When one of these chiefs states on TV and in their blog that Animal Fats are bad because all animal fats are transfats, then I do question their sanity a bit.

 

[KevinPotts]

I think I detect a hint of heavy sarcasm here. Mind you, the boffins supporting the PHE stance one wonders what they studied. Or why? But they earn more than you and I put together, so it was obviously worth it. When one of these chiefs states on TV and in their blog that Animal Fats are bad because all animal fats are transfats, then I do question their sanity a bit.

One word for those professionals "Incomprehensible".


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum mobile app

 

[SunnyExpat]

One of the issues they're going to have is all the criticism about Diabetes UK being in bed with Tesco, the eatwell plate sponsored by all the food industry etc, cuts both ways.
Who do they list among their partners - British Meat Nutrition Education Services.
It can't be brushed under the carpet, just because we like the sound of what they're saying, and the other side offend us, or we're the hypocrites now.

Maybe they should seriously consider cutting links with anyone that may influence them to promote their products?
Or they're in the same boat as all the others, and their credibility suffers the same as all the others we regularly criticise.

 

[Oldvatr]

Has anybody actually been on the NOF website? There is absolutely no mention of this topic on their site. They do discuss the NICE recommendation regarding using bariatric surgery to reverse T2D. But the only dietary comment is in regard to reducing calories and the latest NHS initiative to try to get food manufacturers to sign up to a voluntary code of practice. The word CARB is not mentioned anywhere. So is this story in the Telegraph a hoax? They do show the latest Telegraph newsline, but it is not today's story.

Seems to have been a twitter feed to Sam Feltham by Dr Aseem Maholta, who is a Frimley Health NHS based Cardiologist, mentioning a report by Dr. Michael Mosley written for PHCUK. (Sam Feltham is a bigwig in PHCUK, and is the guy who did LCHF for 21 days without gaining weight even on 5000Kcal/day)

I think we have been taken for a ride. The report seems to have no real substance behind it. Nice to see LCHF making the page 8 sub headlines, but it does not seem to be anything new.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I did wonder that as well.
No mention at all on there.

 

[bulkbiker]

Has anybody actually been on the NOF website? There is absolutely no mention of this topic on their site. They do discuss the NICE recommendation regarding using bariatric surgery to reverse T2D. But the only dietary comment is in regard to reducing calories and the latest NHS initiative to try to get food manufacturers to sign up to a voluntary code of practice. The word CARB is not mentioned anywhere. So is this story in the Telegraph a hoax? They do show the latest Telegraph newsline, but it is not today's story.

Seems to have been a twitter feed to Sam Feltham by Dr Aseem Maholta, who is a Frimley Health NHS based Cardiologist, mentioning a report by Dr. Michael Mosley written for PHCUK. (Sam Feltham is a bigwig in PHCUK, and is the guy who did LCHF for 21 days without gaining weight even on 5000Kcal/day)

I think we have been taken for a ride. The report seems to have no real substance behind it. Nice to see LCHF making the page 8 sub headlines, but it does not seem to be anything new.

I think it might be this from Public Health Collaboration

https://phcuk.org/wp-content/upload...Obesity-Forum-Public-Health-Collaboration.pdf

Although you are correct in saying it doesn't seem to be on the NOF website at all..

 

[Oldvatr]

I did wonder that as well.
No mention at all on there.

Interesting too that there was no comment from DUK either. Seems no one on the Telegraph or the TV bothered to ask them or invite them on their shows. I know one of the TV shows did have a T2D talking about their success, but it could have been an actor.

 

[Dark Horse]

Link to report:-
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...10cBDt7anRyMtQaIQ&sig2=KzDIfF6KdEfx9QtQ36gw4A

Expert reaction to the report:-
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...t-as-published-by-the-national-obesity-forum/

Link

 

[Oldvatr]

I think it might be this from Public Health Collaboration

https://phcuk.org/wp-content/upload...Obesity-Forum-Public-Health-Collaboration.pdf

Although you are correct in saying it doesn't seem to be on the NOF website at all..

This does seem to be the report. I see Aseem Mohalta is mentioned several times in Despatches (i.e. in the reference section) as is Dr David Unwin. The reference section contains many study reports that I have read, so the report seems legit, and I take back my comment that it seemed to have no substance. It is a shame that DUK did not back it up.

 

[SunnyExpat]

This does seem to be the report. I see Aseem Mohalta is mentioned several times in Despatches (i.e. in the reference section) as is Dr David Unwin. The reference section contains many study reports that I have read, so the report seems legit, and I take back my comment that it seemed to have no substance. It is a shame that DUK did not back it up.

Lot's of people are mentioned.

I'm missing who actually wrote it though, and who reviewed it?

And looking at the references, it does seem to be cherry picked to a fair degree, as mentioned in the response linked to.

 

[SunnyExpat]

The website appears to have blocked it's patrons but the cache is still there.

https://webcache.googleusercontent..../phcuk.org/patrons/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Oddly enough, a lot of vested interest in LC, so the same logic as I said earlier in my opinion.
Wonder if the funding sources will be made public again?

 

[NurseDee]

This is the guidelines for healthy eating produced by the PHCUK. Reading through the report and the new guidelines....it seems that the advisory board members and others (all Doctors ect including our own Trudi) have shared/used information gleaned from their patients and scientific evidence from studies to produce the report and their version of healthy eating.

They have reviewed the studies and listened to patients.

https://phcuk.org/healthy-eating-guidelines-weight-loss-advice-for-the-uk/

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app

 

[zand]

I agree that a high fat intake is counter intuitive, surely fat begets fat?

No, dietary fat alone does not make you fat. It's the carbs you have with it that are the problem. I did a little experiment last year. I almost doubled my calorie intake and lost weight.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

 

[SunnyExpat]

No, dietary fat alone does not make you fat. It's the carbs you have with it that are the problem. I did a little experiment last year. I almost doubled my calorie intake and lost weight.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

It is fairly common to lose weight on any major dietary change, until the body adjusts, and gut enzymes and flora change to cope etc.
It would be interesting to see this sort of diet for say 12 months. The body should have adjusted to the way of eating, and I suspect weight will pile back on.

Didn't the guy who wrote this report do similar, but only for 21 days?

 

[SunnyExpat]

Interestingly, the founders page went down as well. It's now back up, but seems to have lost
Dr. David Cavan – Diabetologist, and Director of Policy and Programmes at the International Diabetes Federation.

Maybe he's not 100% behind the advice?
The IDF certainly isn't.
http://www.idf.org/sites/default/files/IDF-Guideline-for-Type-2-Diabetes.pdf

And still nothing at all on the NOF, it will be interesting to see if they ever acknowledge their own report on their own website.

 

[librarising]

It would be interesting to see this sort of diet for say 12 months. The body should have adjusted to the way of eating, and I suspect weight will pile back on.

"A study last year in the Annals of Internal Medicine made one of the most convincing cases yet: Researchers found that men and women who switched to a low-carb diet lost 14 pounds after one year—eight pounds more than those who limited their fat intake instead. The high-fat group also maintained more muscle, trimmed more body fat, and increased their protein intake more than their carb-heavy counterparts. These results are promising not only because researchers looked at the diet long-term, but also because they didn’t limit how many calories the participants could eat, debunking the idea that LCHF only works as well as any other calorie-capped diet"
http://www.shape.com/weight-loss/tips-plans/truth-about-low-carb-high-fat-diet

There are summaries of more studies here :

https://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

Some short-term. Some longer-term. The low-carb diet often saw the highest improvements in risk factors (especially higher HDL and lower trigs, and see study 15 for effect on diabetes medications !), and other diets were often calorie-restricted.

I love the conclusion. As a non calorie-counting low-carber who enjoys what they eat, it makes sense to me

"it seems clear from these studies that low-carb diets are at the very least NOT harder to stick to than other diets.

The reason may be that low-carb diets appear to reduce hunger (9, 11) and participants are allowed to eat until fullness.

This is an important point, because low-fat diets are usually calorie restricted and require people to weigh their food and count calories.

Individuals also lose more weight, faster, on low-carb. This may improve motivation to continue on the diet."

I've been low-carb for over 4 years now, and only lost weight or stabilised. Improved BP, BS, lipid profile. What's not to like ?

Geoff

 

[SunnyExpat]

"A study last year in the Annals of Internal Medicine made one of the most convincing cases yet: Researchers found that men and women who switched to a low-carb diet lost 14 pounds after one year—eight pounds more than those who limited their fat intake instead. The high-fat group also maintained more muscle, trimmed more body fat, and increased their protein intake more than their carb-heavy counterparts. These results are promising not only because researchers looked at the diet long-term, but also because they didn’t limit how many calories the participants could eat, debunking the idea that LCHF only works as well as any other calorie-capped diet"
http://www.shape.com/weight-loss/tips-plans/truth-about-low-carb-high-fat-diet

There are summaries of more studies here :

https://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

Some short-term. Some longer-term. The low-carb diet often saw the highest improvements in risk factors (especially higher HDL and lower trigs, and see study 15 for effect on diabetes medications !), and other diets were often calorie-restricted.

I love the conclusion. As a non calorie-counting low-carber who enjoys what they eat, it makes sense to me

"it seems clear from these studies that low-carb diets are at the very least NOT harder to stick to than other diets.

The reason may be that low-carb diets appear to reduce hunger (9, 11) and participants are allowed to eat until fullness.

This is an important point, because low-fat diets are usually calorie restricted and require people to weigh their food and count calories.

Individuals also lose more weight, faster, on low-carb. This may improve motivation to continue on the diet."

I've been low-carb for over 4 years now, and only lost weight or stabilised. Improved BP, BS, lipid profile. What's not to like ?

Geoff

Yes, that report agrees with what I said. Short term, the body struggles and will lose more weight, but the 12 month trials levelled out, and weight loss 'was not statistically significant.'

 

[Oldvatr]

Interestingly, the founders page went down as well. It's now back up, but seems to have lost
Dr. David Cavan – Diabetologist, and Director of Policy and Programmes at the International Diabetes Federation.

Maybe he's not 100% behind the advice?
The IDF certainly isn't.
http://www.idf.org/sites/default/files/IDF-Guideline-for-Type-2-Diabetes.pdf

And still nothing at all on the NOF, it will be interesting to see if they ever acknowledge their own report on their own website.

The IDF report you linked us to is published in 2012. Do you have anything more recent, since many of the studies you decry in the NOF report were only recently published, i.e. within the last year.

 

[SunnyExpat]

The IDF report you linked us to is published in 2012. Do you have anything more recent, since many of the studies you decry in the NOF report were only recently published, i.e. within the last year.

I would guess if they haven't updated it, it's still current advice for them.

I don't know if I've decried it the NOF report, I have said it's strange that the quietest people about the NOF report is the NOF themselves.
You would have thought such a groundbreaking report, jointly written, would at least be jointly published?
And the lack of accountability in the report by any party, no names, no authors, nothing ?


You've said you used to do critical reviews of reports, does it entirely sit right with you?

 

[Oldvatr]

Yes, that report agrees with what I said. Short term, the body struggles and will lose more weight, but the 12 month trials levelled out, and weight loss 'was not statistically significant.'

Sorry, i fail to see anything that supports your conclusion in the reports above. The second 23 study report only covers LCLF or calorie limited diets, but not the LCHF diet of the PHCUK report. So I do not see how you make your case from these reports as you do.