PHE say NOF advice to eat high fat is irresponsible

[SunnyExpat]

Meat forms trans fats from bacterial action, as well as a natural bond configuration.

It's not temporary, it's the geometric configuration of the bonding.

 

[Oldvatr]

Eh? please explain this.

OK got it, So technically PHE are correct about that, but give the inference they are all harmful.
quote:
Red meat provides a small amount of naturally occurring trans fats in the form of trans-rumenic acid and trans-vaccenic acid. This type of trans fat is actually beneficial and not the same as the artificial trans fats resulting from hydrogenation and used in the food manufacturing industry. Both of these natural trans fats are categorized as omega-7 fats and can help promote healthy cholesterol levels by lowering LDL, or bad cholesterol. In addition, trans-rumenic acid is a form of conjugated linoleic acid, also known as CLA, which is associated with weight control and also found in cows milk.

endquote.

 

[SunnyExpat]

It's from a gut bacteria in ruminant animals.

Not a vaste amount, but it's there.

One example for a study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19893860

Maybe that's why I react badly to meat, it may be any source of trans fat as I avoid all man made ones.
Although, they are few and far between now, market forces have killed them off.

 

[SunnyExpat]

OK got it, So technically PHE are correct about that, but give the inference they are all harmful.
quote:
Red meat provides a small amount of naturally occurring trans fats in the form of trans-rumenic acid and trans-vaccenic acid. This type of trans fat is actually beneficial and not the same as the artificial trans fats resulting from hydrogenation and used in the food manufacturing industry. Both of these natural trans fats are categorized as omega-7 fats and can help promote healthy cholesterol levels by lowering LDL, or bad cholesterol. In addition, trans-rumenic acid is a form of conjugated linoleic acid, also known as CLA, which is associated with weight control and also found in cows milk.

endquote.

I can't actually understand why they come to that conclusion, as a trans fat is specifically the bonding, which is the issue.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I can't actually understand why they come to that conclusion, as a trans fat is specifically the bonding, which is the issue.

Omega 7 are classed as unsaturated, or monounsaturated, not trans fats, from the bonding.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I guess everyone has something different to add to the party.
We're all still learning,
I just go on my bodies response.

 

[SunnyExpat]

https://authoritynutrition.com/why-trans-fats-are-bad/

The process is there.

The sales pitch is as well.

The chemical bonding doesn't lie.
My body can't read, it just goes off the chemicals stuffed into it unfortunately.

 

[Dark Horse]

OK got it, So technically PHE are correct about that, but give the inference they are all harmful.
quote:
Red meat provides a small amount of naturally occurring trans fats in the form of trans-rumenic acid and trans-vaccenic acid. This type of trans fat is actually beneficial and not the same as the artificial trans fats resulting from hydrogenation and used in the food manufacturing industry. Both of these natural trans fats are categorized as omega-7 fats and can help promote healthy cholesterol levels by lowering LDL, or bad cholesterol. In addition, trans-rumenic acid is a form of conjugated linoleic acid, also known as CLA, which is associated with weight control and also found in cows milk.

endquote.

My inference was that because so many manufacturers have reformulated their products, the main sources of trans fats in the diet are now the small percentage that are in butter, beef and lamb fat, whereas previously the main sources were products containing partially hydrogenated vegetable oil. (I must admit, that was news to me - I thought partially hydrogenated vegetable oil was still winning.)

I've been trying to understand why you thought someone from PHE had said that all animal fats were trans fats. There is no way that anyone with a basic knowledge of nutrition would think that, let alone an expert from a public body. I wonder if it's because you hadn't realised that animal fats actually consist of a mixture of different fats. The different fats have different chain lengths, different degrees of branching within the molecule and different degrees of saturation (double bonds), all of which affect their properties. A small percentage of the fats present in the animal fat mixture are trans fats.

Naturally-occurring trans fats are still thought to be potentially harmful but in the normal UK diet, the amount of trans fats consumed does not exceed the recommended maximum so they're unlikely to be a problem for most people. However, if someone following a high fat diet relies extensively on animal fats, they might exceed the UK Scientific Advisory Committee's recommended maximum intake that trans fats form no more than 2% of food energy intake.

 

[Oldvatr]

My inference was that because so many manufacturers have reformulated their products, the main sources of trans fats in the diet are now the small percentage that are in butter, beef and lamb fat, whereas previously the main sources were products containing partially hydrogenated vegetable oil. (I must admit, that was news to me - I thought partially hydrogenated vegetable oil was still winning.)

I've been trying to understand why you thought someone from PHE had said that all animal fats were trans fats. There is no way that anyone with a basic knowledge of nutrition would think that, let alone an expert from a public body. I wonder if it's because you hadn't realised that animal fats actually consist of a mixture of different fats. The different fats have different chain lengths, different degrees of branching within the molecule and different degrees of saturation (double bonds), all of which affect their properties. A small percentage of the fats present in the animal fat mixture are trans fats.

Naturally-occurring trans fats are still thought to be potentially harmful but in the normal UK diet, the amount of trans fats consumed does not exceed the recommended maximum so they're unlikely to be a problem for most people. However, if someone following a high fat diet relies extensively on animal fats, they might exceed the UK Scientific Advisory Committee's recommended maximum intake that trans fats form no more than 2% of food energy intake.

The quote in my posting is taken directly from the response to the NOF report.
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...t-as-published-by-the-national-obesity-forum/

 

[SunnyExpat]

The quote in my posting is taken directly from the response to the NOF report.
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/e...t-as-published-by-the-national-obesity-forum/

I can only see this reference

'The only remaining sources of trans fatty acids in the UK diet are butter, beef and lamb fat. '

Which is most likely true.

The fats listed contain an amount of trans fats, but they are mainly saturated fats.
Artificially made vegetable trans fats have been (mostly) banished from the foodchain now.
(Although a lot of people still like to incorrectly use them as a scare tactic when arguing over animal fats.)

 

[Pinkorchid]

Well at the end of the day all we can say is that fat is bad for some people who for whatever reason can't tolerate it and for others they can eat it without a problem so we do whatever suits us

 

[Oldvatr]

I can only see this reference

'The only remaining sources of trans fatty acids in the UK diet are butter, beef and lamb fat. '

Which is most likely true.

The fats listed contain an amount of trans fats, but they are mainly saturated fats.
Artificially made vegetable trans fats have been (mostly) banished from the foodchain now.
(Although a lot of people still like to incorrectly use them as a scare tactic when arguing over animal fats.)

I have already agreed that point.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I have already agreed that point.

I don't see where you're getting the 'all animal fats are trans fats' from?
The quote states there are some trans fats in animal fats, not that all animal fats are trans fats.
It also states that is the only place they now enter the food chain.

Possibly you are reading it differently?

 

[lindisfel]

Reports or no reports, it stands to reason, cholesterol clogs arteries, fact, (I should know after a quintuple bypass), cholesterol comes from animal fat. I'm sorry but it doesn't need studies or a nutritionist to connect those dots.

Most Cholesterol is made in the liver, you need it to produce vitamin D.

 

[Oldvatr]

I don't see where you're getting the 'all animal fats are trans fats' from?
The quote states there are some trans fats in animal fats, not that all animal fats are trans fats.
It also states that is the only place they now enter the food chain.

Possibly you are reading it differently?

The following has been copied from an article written by Alison Tedstone on the PHE website:

The majority of trans fat in UK diets comes from natural sources in meat and milk. We know trans fats are harmful to health, but in the UK average consumption is already well within maximum recommended levels and is falling.

This is not the quote I have been looking for, but it is from the same website that her other blog was found on. I cannot find it now, and Alison is no longer listed as an author in the blogs section.

It seems clear that PHE are certain that all transfats are harmful, and by inference, since they are found in meat and dairy, then this is a reason for restricting consumption. They have not recognised that the natural Omega-7 transfats may actually be beneficial, but lump them all on the naughty step.


As an aside, during my research here, I have uncovered two worrying reports released recently by PHE. One is that diabetics should be recommended to have bariatric surgery/ gastric banding as a primary means of control
And, secondly, they have ammended the Eatwell#2 guidance by reducing dairy intake from 15% of RDA to 8% per day. This has the immediate effect that the average woman will exceed this limit just by consuming 1 Latte coffee, or 3 milky coffee's. it is 3 slices of processed cheese max for a man. They have also apparently reduced protein input to 70g max/day

 

[Oldvatr]

Most Cholesterol is made in the liver, you need it to produce vitamin D.

You also need it to transport essential amino acids to the cells. Without cholesterol we die.

 

[Dark Horse]

You also need it to transport essential amino acids to the cells. Without cholesterol we die.

Cholesterol is indeed necessary for life - it is an essential component of cell membranes, and a precursor for steroid hormones, vitamin D and bile acids. Fortunately we can manufacture it in our livers.

What makes you think it transports essential amino acids?

 

[Dark Horse]

The following has been copied from an article written by Alison Tedstone on the PHE website:

The majority of trans fat in UK diets comes from natural sources in meat and milk. We know trans fats are harmful to health, but in the UK average consumption is already well within maximum recommended levels and is falling.

This is not the quote I have been looking for, but it is from the same website that her other blog was found on. I cannot find it now, and Alison is no longer listed as an author in the blogs section.

It seems clear that PHE are certain that all transfats are harmful, and by inference, since they are found in meat and dairy, then this is a reason for restricting consumption. They have not recognised that the natural Omega-7 transfats may actually be beneficial, but lump them all on the naughty step.


As an aside, during my research here, I have uncovered two worrying reports released recently by PHE. One is that diabetics should be recommended to have bariatric surgery/ gastric banding as a primary means of control
And, secondly, they have ammended the Eatwell#2 guidance by reducing dairy intake from 15% of RDA to 8% per day. This has the immediate effect that the average woman will exceed this limit just by consuming 1 Latte coffee, or 3 milky coffee's. it is 3 slices of processed cheese max for a man. They have also apparently reduced protein input to 70g max/day

Can you provide a link to the PHE report regarding bariatric surgery, please?

 

[Oldvatr]

Cholesterol is indeed necessary for life - it is an essential component of cell membranes, and a precursor for steroid hormones, vitamin D and bile acids. Fortunately we can manufacture it in our livers.

What makes you think it transports essential amino acids?

Sorry, i should have said fatty acids. Amino acids transfer in the blood plasma.
I had been reading about LDL, and I think I got confused by the following description:
LDLs are cholesterol-rich particles. About 70% of plasma
cholesterol occurs in this form. LDLs are chiefly involved in
the transport of the cholesterol manufactured in the liver to
the tissues, where it is used. Uptake of cholesterol into cells
occurs when lipoprotein binds to LDL receptors on the cell
surface. LDL is then taken into the cell and broken down
into free cholesterol and amino acids

In other words, cholesterol provides the material for the cells to synthesise amino acids. Of course, the 9 essential amino acids cannot be synthesised, and have to be eaten in the diet. These are metabolised into the blood directly, and do not need a receptacle to carry them. Many of the 23 amino acides are involved in the glucogen pathway.

 

[Oldvatr]

Can you provide a link to the PHE report regarding bariatric surgery, please?

It was reported on this site yesterday.
This is the news report that triggered it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...for-obese-cures-half-of-diabetes-cases-study/
May i suggest you search the PHE blogsite yourself, since I cannot be ^^^^^ed to do it again There is a technical paper in the blogs section, but it does not call it bariatric, Nor gastric band. But it is clear from the contents what it is describing. Since I am not myself interested in this procedure, I did not save the chapter and verse.
Good Luck.