plant base

When you say plant based, do you mean things like leaves ect. Or do you mean something that comes in a packet?

lavender_blue said:

Is anyone on a plant based diet

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Not the greatest way of eating for T2 control...unless you wish to stay T2 forever.

bulkbiker said:

Not the greatest way of eating for T2 control...unless you wish to stay T2 forever.
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What are you trying to prove with that graph? It appears to show that a vegan diet is marginally better than a conventional diet at blood glucose control. Of course a low carb diet, be it vegan or otherwise, would be much better for bg control but that wasn't what the OP asked.

I'm a vegetarian so not plant based but some of my meals end up being plant based only. Overall I've not found it too difficult to reduce blood sugars and go low carbs but I think I would struggle to feel full without eating eggs and cheese. There are vegan cheeses though but I dont know how they affect blood sugars. I've seen a few positive stories online so worth looking into if that's would you would like to do.

Mr_Pot said:

What are you trying to prove with that graph? It appears to show that a vegan diet is marginally better than a conventional diet at blood glucose control. Of course a low carb diet, be it vegan or otherwise, would be much better for bg control but that wasn't what the OP asked.

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Fairly obviously trying to show that a plant based (vegan) diet is pretty rubbish at controlling T2.

When a study is run by one of the most vocal vegan doctors (Barnard) and has such abysmal results it clearly demonstrates that plant based is not the way to go.

I didn't go into the "cleanse" part because bodies do that all the time anyway.

lavender_blue said:

Is anyone on a plant based diet or has done a plant base cleanse ?
Thought maybe it might be a way to start off the New Year
I have T2

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Are you still on insulin and any other diabetes meds?

I eat lots of salad and green veg, but get my protein from mainly dairy, as I can't eat nuts or soya. Tofu is a good source of low carb protein apparently.

What do you have in mind as plant based?

Perhaps a good place to start is the Success Stories and Testimonials subthread on this forum to see how many report success on a plant-based diet. Then compare that to what is being achieved on other diets. It is, I believe, possible to achieve control using plant-based,, but take the claims for remission with a pinch of salt.

IMHO, I think you can do a vegetarian path if you’re okay with eggs and dairy. Imho, focus on getting full spectrum protein, essential amino acids, which probably does mean a lot of eggs, cheese, tofu and nuts. Possibly supplement with vegetarian or dairy based protein. There’s lots of great fats from, coconuts, olives, avocados, macadamia nuts. All the green leafy veggies, peppers, cabbage etc.

If you’re not feeling satisfied, you should up the fats. A heaping spoon full of peanut butter for dessert might do the trick.

lavender_blue said:

Is anyone on a plant based diet or has done a plant base cleanse ?
Thought maybe it might be a way to start off the New Year
I have T2

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Hi,

Is there a particular reason why you want to go this route? Food intolerances, ethics, religion? Because technically speaking, plant based doesn't have a great record for treating T2. There are vegetarians and vegans on this site, though it's tough finding some regime that is low carb, plant based, varied and sufficiently nutritious. Zero carb foods are usually meat, fish, poultry, eggs, cheese etc, so that might complicate things. So if your motivation to try this is purely from a need-to-treat-T2 point of view, you're not picking the most effective route. If you feel you have no other choice due to other concerns, well... It's not easy, but it might be do-able, depending on your food options, insulin sensitivity and whatnot. Check the vegetarian/vegan subforum for ideas.

Good luck,
Jo

A couple of books which you might find of interest are 'The China Study' and 'How not to Die'.

Hello, I'm new to this forum - I am an ethical vegan coming up to a decade this year, and vegetarian for over 20 years before that. There's an article in the December 2020 issue of Diabetic Living (Australia) called Is Plant-Based Eating the Way to Go? that sites the stats from various studies in support of a PB diet. For example:
And there are other stats regarding improvements in BGLs, cholesterol levels, weight loss, insulin sensitivity, need for medication and risk of heart attack and stroke, after switching to a PB diet.

I don't think a PB diet is a magical pill however, otherwise I wouldn't have become diabetic in the first place (unfortunate genes in my family play a big part - I'm a third generation diabetic). I understand the enthusiasm among vegans who quote the Forks Over Knives "veganism cures diabetes" POV, but it's not taking into account the full spectrum of factors. I find there's a lack of resources for Type 2 vegans because of that belief that we shouldn't even exist!

By the same token, I wholeheartedly believe the type of stats in the article quoted above, and definitely think it can't hurt to give a PB diet a try! At the very least, you're probably going to get a lot more fibre in your diet and get to try some interesting new foods. It is challenging though, because many PB proteins contain a degree of carbs too, so you have to take that into account. I think the benefits of beans and pulses make it worthwhile though. Tofu, tempeh and yuba are fantastic. Then there's seitan-based meat alternatives (unless you're GF or strictly WFPB). Nuts of course can be used to make loaves, cutlets, cheeses, etc. And Quorn Vegan Fillets only contain 1.7g carbs.

It's a learning curve because you do need to consider not all alternatives are nutritionally identical to their meat and dairy counterparts, but it's definitely doable, and although not everyone might agree, the health benefits are evident.

elram said:

A couple of books which you might find of interest are 'The China Study' and 'How not to Die'.

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'How not to Die' is animal rights focused, and from the same minds that gave you 'milk causes autism'. I have no objection to animal rights or veganism, but it's not an honest book. No matter: vegan, carnivore, omnivore, vegetarian- just lay off the carbs and you'll be on the right track.

I have found that following a Plant based form of eating is helping me to take control. I did not think either book was 'animal rights' based. You may not have the immiediate results of a low carb diet, but I am happy to plod along my track.

elram said:

I have found that following a Plant based form of eating is helping me to take control. I did not think either book was 'animal rights' based. You may not have the immiediate results of a low carb diet, but I am happy to plod along my track.

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That''s fine but long term it has been shown to be not especially effective I'm afraid.

lavender_blue said:

Is anyone on a plant based diet or has done a plant base cleanse ?
Thought maybe it might be a way to start off the New Year
I have T2

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Plenty of people getting good outcomes, here:

https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/case-studies/

Click "Load More", to read more

It's worth pointing out that the above graph is part of an article that outlines several studies, all with favourable outcomes in regards to a vegan diet. That particular graph illustrates a comparison between a calorie restricted diet (following American Diabetes Association guidelines) and a plant based diet with no restrictions on calories, carbs or portion size. The vegan group ate way more carbs and fibre, and still managed to get better results. Interestingly, despite having free reign to eat as many calories as they liked, the vegan group ate around the same calories as the calorie-restricted group, which shows a vegan diet can be satisfying and not leave you faint with hunger (and the vegan group lost a bit more weight too). It really pays to read the whole thing rather than just looking at one graphic in isolation but I'm having trouble posting links? Anyway, it's on Healthline and the article's called 16 Studies on Vegan Diets - Do They really Work?

I think the important thing is that everyone finds their own approach to managing their diabetes - for some people that's going to be vegan, and for some, heavy on the animal products, and for others, something in between. What matters is that it's sustainable long-term.

VioletFoxtrot said:

The vegan group ate way more carbs and fibre, and still managed to get better results. Interestingly, despite having free reign to eat as many calories as they liked, the vegan group ate around the same calories as the calorie-restricted group, which shows a vegan diet can be satisfying and not leave you faint with hunger (and the vegan group lost a bit more weight too). It really pays to read the whole thing rather than just looking at one graphic in isolation

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Are you talking about the Barnard study that I posted?

bulkbiker said:

Are you talking about the Barnard study that I posted?

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And of all the studies listed in the article I mentioned, that particular study, although still favouring the vegan diet in the outcome, has the more moderate results. It certainly doesn't demonstrate that a PB diet is "rubbish" at controlling type 2. It's never helpful to cherry-pick bits of information to support an argument.

VioletFoxtrot said:

It certainly doesn't demonstrate that a PB diet is "rubbish" at controlling type 2.

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An HbA1c consistently well into diabetic levels certainly doesn't seem to me to be very good at putting T2 into remission.
Worsening HbA1c over time is also far from remission so I would certainly say that Barnards vegan diet is definitely "rubbish" at controlling T2.
My last HbA1c was 4.8% as a comparator