Plant based diet?

The most famous long term vegan study gave results like this


Not very inspiring..

Cocosilk said:

I was just thinking (I should probably stop thinking and just go to bed at this point, but...) if most carbohydrates come from plants, how much success do people have controlling diabetes while adhering to a plant based diet?

Is the reason some people make it to old age without developing diabetes even after a life time of eating fruit and cake (my 83yo aunt for one) because they only ate small amounts and weren't overeating and probably had a more active (laborious) lifestyle? Or is it because there was just a whole lot less processed food (with added sugars and seed oils) creeping into their diets so the cake they ate was homemade?
And the meats they ate came from animals that were taken to pastures rather than feedlots? (I was talking to my Serbian husband about his 97yo nonna and how during the first half of her life, the pork she was eating would have come from pigs who were allowed to roam in the oak forests to forage for acorns.)

But seriously, plants means vegetables, but also grains and fruits, and most of those are off the menu (or at least limited), aren't they?

I can understand a plant based diet for most of your life must help us not become diabetic in the first place, right? But once you are diabetic, can you really turn things around while still eating grains and fruits, and even legumes with your vegetables?

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Some people develop T2 not because of what they eat but environmental factors and genetics.

Cocosilk said:

That's what I thought might be the case...

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Can i suggest a read through the Success Stories and Testamonials to see how many are reporting successs with a vegetarian or vegan WOE. Then see how many are using insulin. If it is as good as is claimed then a) there should be very few vegetarians or vegans needing this website in the first place, or b( who find they can give up all their meds and claim remission. The 'proof' is in the reading. Its just another diet that has good points and bad points.

Oldvatr said:

Can i suggest a read through the Success Stories and Testamonials to see how many are reporting successs with a vegetarian or vegan WOE. Then see how many are using insulin. If it is as good as is claimed then a) there should be very few vegetarians or vegans needing this website in the first place, or b( who find they can give up all their meds and claim remission. The 'proof' is in the reading. Its just another diet that has good points and bad points.

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Another way of looking at it is to see what the incidence of diabetes has done since the 1950's. It went from being a low percentage and started to rise when seed oils were introduced, and sharply increased after EATWELL and low fat diet was introduced. Then compare same curve against meat consumption which has been fslling steadily since the 1950's. These graphs have been shared on the forum before, but I do not have a copy to hand. My bookmark library got trashed by Bill Gates one day,

I thought you asked a similar question (and got similar answers)here:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-to-plant-based.169362/

I suspect that the 'you gave yourself diabetes by eating the wrong things' is not a useful assumption to make. It just doesn't add up, but it seems to be something many people believe.

Resurgam said:

I suspect that the 'you gave yourself diabetes by eating the wrong things' is not a useful assumption to make. It just doesn't add up, but it seems to be something many people believe.

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and as far as I am concerned it is simply not true. If it were, practically the entire world would have diabetes. I get that a certain diet may trigger it or contribute to it or make it worse once you have it and so on BUT it's there in the DNA to begin with. Fed up with such daft assumptions.

Type 2 incidences have exploded inside a single generation. So whilst genetic predisposition is clearly a factor, it cannot solely explain the dramatic rise in T2DM. Food is the heart of the problem. In my opinion.

However, that is drifting off topic.

Jim Lahey said:

Type 2 incidences have exploded inside a single generation. So whilst genetic predisposition is clearly a factor, it cannot solely explain the dramatic rise in T2DM. Food is the heart of the problem. In my opinion.

However, that is drifting off topic.

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It is possible that, like cattle, for example, the survivors in the human race, historically, are what farmers call "good do-ers"
These cattle have a high food to fat conversion, and are genetically able to survive and thrive on little food. They would survive a famine or put on extra weight on less feeding than other cattle.

So maybe some of us with type 2 are genetically programmed to put weight on fast if given the foods which will make it happen, far faster than the rest of the population.

I dont know about the thin type 2's. Maybe they have different influences.

Cocosilk said:

Sorry I did. I knew I was having a loop in my late night thoughts. I have the same thoughts each day when I have to remind myself not to eat carbs... If only we could think things once and be done with them.. .

But it truly just occurred to me that most carbohydrates (especially high carbs) actually come from plant sources and I hadn't realized before, as silly as that sounds. One doesn't always connect the dots: sugar = sugarcane = grass = plant. Porridge = oats = grains = grass = plant. Chips = potatoes = (starchy) vegetable = plant. Plum = fruit = fruit tree = plant. Hummus = chickpeas = legume = plant. Bread = wheat = grain = grass = plant.

Of course there are low carb plants too fortunately. I'd miss plants if I had to avoid all if them!

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Yes, most of us already eat a very plant based diet. We just dont realise it. However, not all plants are equal in carbs, are they : )

Cocosilk said:

I'd miss plants if I had to avoid all if them!

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It becomes quite easy after a fairly short time.

Cocosilk, one of the big contributors, in addition to processed sugar and industrial seed oils, to diabetes (and fatty liver) appears to be the introduction of high fructose corn syrup into the US diet in the 1990's. Interestingly, according to Dr. Lyn Patrick, three manufacturing plants of corn syrup in the US use mercury, and "significant amounts of mercury" remain in the corn syrup. This was determined by sending samples of corn syrup to a US government agency that does that type of testing. According to Dr. Patrick, those results were published in 2008 or 2012, but I haven't looked for it.

I share this because while it's true sugar is a problem, fructose (corn syrup), found in many processed foods, played a role in skyrocketing obesity rates beginning in the 90's.

Pediatric endocrinologist Robert Lustig, MD talks about the problems with fructose in all of his lectures, but doesn't have a problem with consuming small amounts of whole fruit and berries. Dr. Patrick, however, believes that those who have liver issues should not be eating fruit daily. Not sure why they differ on that point.

To learn more about this, on YouTube you can find an excellent interview with Lyn Patrick by Mike Mutzel on YouTube. She is a naturopath who specialized in treating patients with fatty liver. Today, her work is focused on training doctors.

Additionally, it's also known that specific heavy metals, one is mercury, and specific toxins, contribute to diabetes and obesity too. I learned this from Dr. Joseph Pizzorno, ND back in 2015 or 2016 in a presentation or interview he did that's not available publicly.

In 2018, his book, The Toxin Solution: How Hidden Poisons in the Air, Water, Food, and Products We Use Are Destroying Our Health - And What We Can Do To Fix It, was published. I have but haven't read the book yet, but at the time I did listen to a lot of interviews with him beginning in 2017 on YouTube. Three come to mind, the ones he did with Dr. Trevor Cates, Dave Asprey (Bulletproof), and Trudy Scott. All can be found on YouTube.

I personally would never consider doing a vegan or vegetarian diet because my protein needs are increasing as I'm approaching the beginnings of my 60's, and most of the plant-based protein and fat sources would not work for me due to my diabetes and ulcerative colitis. I also think those two diets are the hardest ones to do correctly. Most are unwilling and choose not to, and their health suffers for it years later.

All that said, I include plant based foods in all my meals and thoroughly enjoy them!

I think the key to eating healthy is to eat real, whole foods, preferably ones with minimal heavy metals or toxins. (And I don't use problematic skin products). To do this, I'm very thoughtful about where I source my protein, fat, and carbs. I eat non-GMO, organic, free-range, pasture-raised, grass-fed, wild caught, etc. You get the idea.

P.S. Your decorated fir tree is beautiful. I love collecting decor and decorating during the fall and winter months.

Cocosilk said:

Of course there are low carb plants too fortunately. I'd miss plants if I had to avoid all if them!

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there are a few, yes - avocado and coconuts for example. But most of what people call “low carb veggies” are just low calorie. Veggie like cauliflower, zucchini and broccoli are around 70% carbs - not so low carb...

Cocosilk said:

But seriously, plants means vegetables, but also grains and fruits, and most of those are off the menu (or at least limited), aren't they?

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Not for me they aren’t. YMMV.

Jim Lahey said:

Type 2 incidences have exploded inside a single generation. So whilst genetic predisposition is clearly a factor, it cannot solely explain the dramatic rise in T2DM. Food is the heart of the problem. In my opinion.

However, that is drifting off topic.

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Not necessarily not genetics to blame ultimately. The dna responsible has probably always been there, with the potential for diabetes not being realised due to simpler, unprocessed, less carby foods and more physical lifestyles. Modern junk diets have allowed the expression of said dna rather than it being a new thing. Imo

Walking Girl said:

Veggie like cauliflower, zucchini and broccoli are around 70% carbs - not so low carb...

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Where are you getting those figures from?
Cauliflower is about 5g/100g carbs, courgette (zucchini ) 2%, broccoli 3%