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Plant based diet?

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Cocosilk, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    <sigh>

    Apples and oranges indeed.

    Most vegetables are NOT “low carb” foods. As a percent of total energy they are high in carbs.
     
    #41 Walking Girl, Feb 17, 2020 at 2:15 AM
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  2. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just in case you missed the link, with the digression on how to calculate carbs, here is a great place to find low and lower carb veg: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/vegetables.

    Being able to calculate and add up how many carbs we are eating is the basis of success in lowering our blood sugar levels, isnt it.
     
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  3. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Again that is not how low carb food is defined. Energy as calories and carbs as grams are not interchangeable. They measure different things.

    I am well aware of the usual quote (apples and pears) but I deliberately choose different things because those two are at least both fruit and in the same ball park. Unlike the method you are using to establish what is and isn’t low carb and your method fails at any carb calculations not just plants.

    Now I understand why you think you can eat high carb and still control your diabetes. You actually aren’t eating as high as you think if this is how you calculate it.
     
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  4. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    yes, water. And of the rest, the majority is carbs, followed by protein, then minimal fat.
     
    #44 Walking Girl, Feb 17, 2020 at 2:30 AM
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  5. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  6. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    do you now understand that cauliflower does not have 80% carbs, and why that calculation was wrong?
     
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  7. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    91.97% water (no carbs, protein or fats in that bit|)
    3% protein (no carbs or fats in that bit)
    5% carbs (no protein or fats in that bit)
    0.03% fats (no carbs or protein in that bit.

    which makes cauliflower a low carb food.
     
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  8. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I use MyFitnessPal to track my macros. Unless you think that is wrong, I eat around 200g total carbs, 150 net after fiber.

    I’m in the U.S., we use total carbs, then subtract fiber.

    take it however you will. Low, medium, high carbs? Not really relevant to me.
     
  9. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    No. Because it’s not wrong. Water doesn’t provide any energy or calories.

    Are you aiming to eat a certain weight of food per day? If not, then carbs per weight is not relevant.
     
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    #49 Walking Girl, Feb 17, 2020 at 2:37 AM
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  10. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    130g a day is low carb, so you are just above a low carb diet.
     
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  11. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile, back on track:

    I dont know if you have seen this, but there is a vegetarian section of the forum, including some vegan recipes and ideas, if you want to try some more plant based meals. Some of them have the carb count already worked out, and some you may have to calculate yourself.

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/vegetarian-diet-forum.71/
     
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  12. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    and again, I track 100g weight of cauliflower on my food scale as 5 g carbs, minus 3 fiber = 2 net carbs.

    How to you track it?
     
  13. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thinking about this...

    Does eating a plant based diet "for most of your life" prevent diabetes? I have no idea. I've never heard that question asked. Does anyone here know of cultures, past or present, who ate/eat a strictly plant-based diet who enjoy good health as they age?

    Can diabetes be put into remission with a strictly plant based diet? I've seen testimonials online showing that it's possible on a short term basis, but I don't know about long term.

    Vegan diets are much more restrictive than vegetarian diets. I'm not even sure if I know the definition of the whole food plant-based diet (WFPD).

    I can't imagine surviving on a plant-based diet without also eating eggs, butter, and fish at minimum.
     
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  14. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Definitely isn't working for Indian vegetarians.
     
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  15. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes Indy51, I was thinking about that, but I thought the reason for that had to do with starvation - [no, malnutrition, possibly B12 deficiency...apologies] - during the pregnancy? I can't remember. I also heard somewhere that in India, it's really important to include ghee in the diet but can't remember why.

    -----
    [Edited to add]...

    Found the documentary again on YouTube...
    Diabetes Hits Hardest in Poor Countries That Aren't Overweight. Why?
    -----

    Here's how Harvard defines the different plant based diets...

    Vegetarian diet variety
    Vegetarian diets come in lots of shapes and sizes, and you should choose the version that works best for you.

    • Semi-vegetarian or flexitarian includes eggs, dairy foods, and occasionally meat, poultry, fish, and seafood.
    • Pescatarian includes eggs, dairy foods, fish, and seafood, but no meat or poultry.
    • Vegetarian (sometimes referred to as lacto-ovo vegetarian) includes eggs and dairy foods, but no meat, poultry, fish, or seafood.
    • Vegan includes no animal foods.
    Looking around the internet, there's doesn't seem to be an agreed upon definition of the different types of plant based diets.
     
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    #55 Winnie53, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:49 AM
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  16. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

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    Oh, when I said that, I had just read that a plant based diet is not always strictly plants, so it can include meat, eggs fish and dairy but the idea is you eat whole foods and avoid processed foods. (Probably depends on whose definition you use.) So you eat your share of fruit and veges and probably some grain foods as well as meat, fish, eggs and dairy, but don't overeat and you can probably make it into old age without diabetes. Whether or not you would have a degree of insulin resistance, I imagine probably unless you have access to really clean food and never eat out. But no one really does that so most of us would have a degree of insulin resistance by old age I imagine.
    My 80yo father and his 83yo sister are both in relatively good health and neither have diabetes so I'm thinking of what they must have eaten to get them that far. It would have been as I described above, although my father did drink a bit more alcohol for a few earlier years. He has had high blood pressure for years and I imagine he must have insulin resistance by now. He complains about the belly fat that creeps on when he sits in front of the TV eating popcorn. So it's slowly catching up with him now too I think. But not bad to make it to 80 at least and still going and not be too metabolically deranged.
     
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  17. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    @Winnie53 - if you didn't see it when I posted it elsewhere on the forum, I'd highly recommend listening to NZ radio interview with Dr Andrew Jenkinson. He talks about the genetics and other factors involved in abandoning traditional diets for modern ultra processed western diets (what Dr Ted Naiman calls the "Cafeteria Diet"). The Mike Mutzel/Ted Naiman interview is great too, but a lot longer than the interview with Jenkinson. The thread I posted about it is here:

    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/dr-ted-naiman-the-p-e-protein-energy-diet.172004/

    The modern Indian diet is rife with food deep fried in processed seed oils whereas traditionally they always used clarified butter (ghee).
     
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    #57 Indy51, Feb 17, 2020 at 5:18 AM
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  18. Winnie53

    Winnie53 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Indy51, I think you answered my question about why Indians are being encouraged to use ghee. It must be because they're trying to get them to stop using the inflammatory seed oils.

    Okay, I've been doing some reading online. This article, The History of Vegetarianism, was an interesting read...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vegetarianism

    It seems that there's a rise and fall in popularity of the vegetarian diet through the centuries throughout some cultures.

    Indy51, will take a look at the links you shared tonight and tomorrow. Thank you.

    Cocosilk, for me, from the beginning of my journey to restored health, I've been more interested in figuring out what foods are healthy and which are unhealthy...for me.

    It's funny, I was just listening briefly to a CrossFit interview with pediatric endocrinologist Robert Lustig, MD from 2017, in which he's explaining that fructose, which includes sugar and corn syrup found in most processed foods, is the equivalent of alcohol when it comes to the effect on the liver, which is a driver of metabolic syndrome.

    So I think you're on the right track in your thinking: "So you eat your share of fruit and veges and probably some grain foods as well as meat, fish, eggs and dairy, but don't overeat and you can probably make it into old age without diabetes."

    I recently listened to a lecture that referred to the work of Elliott Joslin, a physician in the early 1900's who treated people with diabetes in the US. (But I can't find it again, and really wish I could). He's who The Joslin Clinic was named after.

    As I recall, early in his practice as a physician, he went through an archive of patient medical records that spanned, I believe 70 years, from a hospital in the northeast, might have been Boston, Massachusettes, not sure. He was trying to figure out when diabetes became a problem. And what he confirmed was that the incidence of diabetes, which was not common, increased four fold during the 1800's. And that trend was continuing into the early 1900's. I think what fueled his interest was both his mother and aunt developed diabetes, so it was personal for him. I listen to lectures by Nina Tiecholz a lot, and based on what I've learned from her, I'm going to hazard a guess that the drivers of diabetes are the processed foods of sugar, grain flours, and seed oils, which became more available beginning in the 1800's.

    I also think your thinking that overeating, even healthy foods, can be a problem when it comes to longevity is right too.

    Another challenge we face to today is our access to an abundance of fruit year round from around the world, so perhaps, for a variety of reasons, we all need to go back to eating with the seasons, primarily foods available locally.

    We're so fortunate today. By having lab tests done once a year, and monitoring other health markers such as wieght, height and waist ratio, etc, I can tell over time what foods and eating patterns seem to work best for me health wise.

    I've made a lot of progress over the last five years. Sounds like you have too.
     
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  19. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Or put another way, our DNA evolved alongside a diet of animal fat and protein, but with the ability to also eat plants. Certainly the further away we lived from the equator, anyway. We can sugar coat it all we like (lol), but ultimately, the current diet that most of us eat is not species appropriate. We have manufactured artificial food, and nature is making us pay the price.
     
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  20. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Actually, more to the point, humans think they are somehow disparate from nature. Our hubris has led us to believe that we know better. That we can cheat the system. This is because we have no clue about the nature of our true being. We don't understand that we are nature. A boiling cauldron of atoms forged in the heart of a star. Atoms that now form a biological machine that is supposed to be in symbiosis with the environment in which it came to be.

    A human simply cannot survive & thrive by attempting to overturn nature's will. We try. We fail. The answer? We double-down on our efforts. It's the ultimate paradox of the universe that humans have achieved so much whilst being so stupid :shifty:
     
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