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Plant based diets

The author in the first link is Barnard, a vocal vegan. The second link (as with the first) cites the research that Ben Bikman debunks in a recent podcast i.e lipotoxicity.
 
The second study shows that if you change someone's diet from the SAD to a PB one and get rid of the junk overly processed food that they were eating before they may well improve.
What is can't say is that a PB diet is the only way to achieve that or that a PB diet is necessarily the "best" way to achieve that..
The very process of changing the way someone eats will make them a lot more aware of what they are putting into their bodies so improvements are likely...
The first is a vegan propaganda organ...
 
I agree with you so far.... but I cant agree with your last sentence which dismisses the first link as “a vegan propaganda organ”
I watched the video and saw no real diference in style etc than when I watch people advocating a carnivore diet or other approaches - like Fung. What I see with all of them is someone who is reporting findings showing improvements in diabetic health from adopting a particular approach and then espousing a theory that he believes explains those findings - if thats propoganda then everyon on the health orientated talk circuit is a self promoting propagandist.
I do not agree that humans are herbivores, but neither do I agree with others who claim we are natural carnivores - I personally think we are natural omnivores and that some will do best on a diet geared more to one end of that spectrum, while others will do best at the polar opposite end
 
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bulkbiker said:
No that link... the whole site is a vegan propaganda organ...
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all sites advocating a single, one size fits all approach are basically propaganda organs. Have to admit I was both surprised and pleased to hear Jason Fung on a podcast ( the one that has Dr Unwins one on) saying that low carb isnt everythiing and that good quality food, be it animal or vegetable, is more important
 
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This is just my opinion. When you deliberately pair up Monounsaturated Fats and Polyunsaturated Fats and then pair up Saturated Fats with Trans Fats, that is blatant, and might I add not so subtle, propaganda.
 
I am satisfied that eating both meat and some veg is optimal for some including me. I understand Vegetarianism as this has been around for some time, and with the eating of fish and or eggs for some, I think is a safer choice than being strict Vegan.

Whilst in a modern context it is theoretically possible to get the nutrients required to be Vegan, I would not go down this route as without supplementation all bets would be off so I question this as a default position. If a friend were to do this I would keep my beak out unless asked an opinion, so it is a personal choice.

What I do hate is blind dogma. The Vegan YouTube hierarchy full well know that meat and fish have been in the diet of homosapiens from the beginning, so why try and tell me these cause modern diseases. Why hammer this danger point when they have the stats that the risk of cancer goes from 5 in 5500 to 6 in 5500 for copious amounts of processed meat (ignoring cofounders etc), and that is if you accept the methodology and the blatant mis-direction that there is an 18% increase risk. Why pretend the recent Oxford study was not biased when Vegans are behind it; if they could get persons similar to Ivor Cummins or Dave Feldman to show real non bloatware facts then great, but the "facts" presented are always tainted.

Giving mice a meat enzyme and turning on and off cancer, I am not interested, show the same with real meat in proportion to their normal portion sizes or with a creature closer to us, like a dog - if you can't then politely be quiet.

Persons like me know that it is easy to put just as much dirt on plants with the anti-nutrient arguments. I don't want any more Ancel Keys moments, just unbiased truths. Trying to tell me to give up meat and eat starch and soy, vegetable oil (yuk) and lower cholesterol, the very item my body produces naturally, no chance, but good luck to those who want to.
 
I know vegans who think Barnard is taking out his tushie a fair bit of the time. There are more honest advocates for the movement.
 
Safi said:
I know vegans who think Barnard is taking out his tushie a fair bit of the time. There are more honest advocates for the movement.
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I watched a YouTube with Gabriel Cousens where he was on a distinguished panel of top Vegans / WFPB protagonists, he was the only one who said he would do low carb Vegan to reverse diabetes - this created a tumbleweed moment amongst the other panelists. This person I have time for even if I choose a differing protocol, those who tell me I can reverse carbohydrate intolerance on the highest GI insulin promoting vegetables I have less time for.
 
I personally wouldn't touch a vegan diet with a 12 foot knife and fork.

And that is after cooking vegan meals for a veganite who was part of my household for several years.
 
dbr10 said:
Does anyone have any comments on these articles.

https://www.pcrm.org/health-topics/diabetes

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466941/
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If you look at the list of referenced studies at the end of the second linked paper then you will find numerous listings for ADVENT-2 and other ADVENT studies that were performed and paid for by the Church of 7th Day Adventists who needed to prove that their spiritually inspired vegan way of life was superior to any other in God's Kingdom, These studies were not peer reviewed and are highly suspect in methodology. They also seem to be not repeatable by others who have tried to test the same theories but come to different conclusions.
 
Guzzler said:
The author in the first link is Barnard, a vocal vegan. The second link (as with the first) cites the research that Ben Bikman debunks in a recent podcast i.e lipotoxicity.
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I see.
 
Thanks
 
dbr10 said:
Does anyone have any comments on these articles.
Click to expand...

I have noticed that if I not only cut the carbs AND cut down on meat and fish my BG is much better behaved and I can even get rid of dawn phenomena. If I start to have "meat and 2 veg" at every meal my BG isn't so good and for some reason I seem to crave for things I shouldn't eat. I've been trying to decrease my carbs further and that means cutting down on the veg, and increasing meat and fish. It's really not agreeing with me, I will probably go back to lots of veg, not because I'm a vegetarian but because I like veg, even with their minimal carbs.
 
Same for me with meat consumption, its also the same when I cut dairy out - I have a diagnosed intolerance to dairy. Been dairy and meat free for the last 10 days resulting in nice flat sugars - when I eat both then I get more peaks and troughs in my sugars
 

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