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Please be careful

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maybird
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Andy12345 said:
thankyou OP im frightened to answer a newbies post, nice going, better i leave em to struggle, or maybe i should tell them to ask there doctor
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Andy, I have a feeling this was the general idea! I don't post much, but I do read loads and even though some of it doesn't directly apply to me, I appreciate the information you and many others so generously offer.


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fatbird said:
Andy nil carborundum illegitimi

FB
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Hah yes, I had forgotten this one! A very useful thing to remember!

Andy, I read your thread the other day, the one with before and after pictures in it? Can't remember which one it was now (remind me?) but it literally got me through the rest of the day. I find you totally astonishing, what you have achieved is amazing and just goes to show just exactly what most of us say on here....our own experiences are all we can relate really and those have come from doing the hard yards, testing and finding out what works for us and perhaps it can be useful to others. I know I look for your posts, and like Beachbag says, maybe not all of it is useful to me but I wouldn't be without the diversity and extensive knowledge of the people on here!

One thing I find funny is that NZ only has a total population of about 4.5 million so questions on forums here can take days to get a response! the UK is much more useful to me :wink:
 
I have found that reducing my carb intake has made me feel so much better , type 2 diet controlled . Im not saying every one will but I do

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Andy12345 said:
thankyou OP im frightened to answer a newbies post, nice going, better i leave em to struggle, or maybe i should tell them to ask there doctor
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Andy, you are one of the most inspirational people on this forum, and indeed anywhere. I am not a low carber but a much reduced carber and even so I find all of your advice on here to be well thought out, supportive and incredibly helpful. Please, please, please do not be put off by the OP. Diabetes is such a diverse illness that there is just no way that one approach can work for all. The whole point of a forum is the sharing of information through experience and it.strikes me that the OP is missing that point. I can appreciate that she feels she was given inappropriate advice but we are all free to take or leave what we read here. The OP also may be missing the irony of cautioning against ramming info down people's throats by starting a second thread to basically ram it down our throats that we should only believe our doctors. Keep doing what you're doing Andy. You come from a place of kindness and care helping others on their journey with diabetes.

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Maybird said:
.. a high saturated fat diet is not recommended for anyone these days
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In the interests of accuracy can you substantiate that statement?

Have you read the advice given by Dr. John Briffa and Dr. Dwight Lundell?

Are you aware of the work of Dr. Ancel Keys who first "proved" the link between fat, cholesterol and heart disease? Trouble with his results was that he drew the graph first and only plotted the six results that supported it. He discarded the sixteen results that did not support it and no-one knows why he did that.

I also thought that this topic had been covered by another thread.

Edit: corrected the spelling of Ancel Keys.
 
It is true that the case for avoiding CAD via limiting ingestion of fat is being questioned and that it may not be as harmful as previously thought, but this is not the same as saying it is safe, please go ahead and help yourself. Furthermore, the role of liver and pancreatic triaglycerides in diabetic patients is not covered by the cited studies into the effect of cholesterol in the arteries and reducing liver and pancreatic trigs is essential if there is to be any improvement in this particular metabolic disorder. A diet which results in a sustained weight loss, "more substantial than conventionally advised" and the role of physical activity where "increased levels of daily activity bring about decreases in liver fat stores, and a single bout of exercise substantially decreases both de novo lipogenesis and plasma VLDL" are what is required to improve the state of the liver and pancreas. Studies into aterial disease is quite separate and the same literature that questions earlier thinking on fats also warns, "four decades later, we know that the interactions between dietary fat, serum cholesterol, and arterial endothelium are complex and dynamic" ( Coronary Artery Disease as Clogged Pipes A Misconceptual Model 2013 ).
 
Jamrox said:
I have found that reducing my carb intake has made me feel so much better , type 2 diet controlled .
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It will in most cases yes. The question is, what do you eat if not carbs? In the 1970s and early 80s a 'protein only' diet was all the rage. This was zero carb and was pretty unpleasant. The only carbs one had was in the sugar coating of the multivitamin pills one had to take to avoid other unpleasant side effects. It worked, but was not sustainable. I think the Atkins diet that followed was a refinement and more relaxed version of this. But, these were primarily weight loss diets, temporary devices to get into shape for the beach. It is not the same as a lifestyle choice for the treatment of the diabetic condition.

Not all carbs are the same. Not all humans produce the same set of enzymes or in the same quantities or at the same rate to digest these many different types of carbohydrates as other humans. Learning what does work for you and learning what does not work for you is still important.
 


What Mo said +1


Sent from a melting iceberg. help!!!
 

Couldnt say it any better myself :thumbup:

Science and studies apart we are living proof that lchf does 'work'; Andy you have done your best and many, many members and am sure guests too, are grateful for your inspirational posts. So the OP has decided that lchf is not for her, fair enough, some people cant/dont want to/dont need to go down the lchf route, personal choice, but it would be criminal to withhold that information.
 

Exactly! I choose not to follow LCHF, but I don't see why that should make me feel hostile towards those who promote it or their message. I am much more concerned for people such as the poster yesterday who said that they were told by a 'professional' (as are so very many others) that they only need to test their blood sugars once a month, and were convinced that this must be correct. THAT is what we should be worried about, regardless of our take on the optimum diabetic diet.
 
Yorkman Im a reduced carb diet not a very low carb. Basically I don't eat much bread (maybe a slice or 2 of brown bread a week) , switched to more green leafy veg instead of potatoes turnip etc, have sprinkling of cereal and berries with yoghurt instead of 2 weetabix , rich tea biscuits instead of chocolate digestives. Its just subtle channges and Im no saint but I definitely feel much better , I don't have sweaty horrible periods during the day where I feel terrible and can't think straight. Works for me (type 2 diet controlled ) we are all different and I think its finding what works for the individual. I bought a monitor and think its a good investment for me.

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I was diagnosed prediabetic at the end of October so am still learning. I have learnt so much from this forum and see it as a great support. If I didn't have the advice and support from here I would be completely in the dark. Is LCHF working for me? I don't know. I certainly feel better and have more energy but whether it has lowered my Hb1ac and cholesterol I won't know till I go for my retest in December/January. I am giving it a go short term - if it is working great, if not I will look at something else. I think 3 months is long enough to give it a go but not be harmful.

Andy as others have said you are an inspiration and so positive. I appreciate the help and support you have given, especially with regards to my disastrous baking!
 
Andy you sent me a PM which was just what I needed as I was considering not posting again If you read that PM and apply it to you it will save my typing finger "only use 1" Thanks again
CAROL
 
Sorry for the length and for the fact that it is not on the main topic but answers a theme that has come up in several posts. I realise that most people won't read it. :lol:

1) ANCEL KEYS
Have you actually read beyond the myth of Ancel Keys graph repeated ad finitum by the low carb internet echo chamber ?
When was that graph created? 1953
for what? To compare similar countries to the US ?
Why didn't he say why he picked them? He did, in some detail ( many countries didn't have good data systems and some had been recently otherwise occupied)
If all the countries even were included, was there a relevant correlation ? yes and it was statistically significant. But correlation isn't causation which is why Dr Keys performed many controlled experiments (first to warn about trans fats in 1965) and set up long term observational studies
What has that graph got to do with the Seven Countries Study ? very little since it was produced several years before that study. This started in 1958 and in one shape or form continued for over 50 years. It wasn't perfect in design but it was one of the first such studies. It's easier to see errors in retrospect.
What sort of diet did Ancel Keys advocate ? a Mediterranean diet, he lived out his retirement on one , dying just short of his century.

Fortunately there are people who have been prepared to go beyond repeating the story, to find the facts and the original papers: Denise Minger, a paleo blogger wrote this article which includes correlations of the data http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/12/22/the-tr ... -it-wrong/
Plant Positive: who has a video about Keys's paper explaining the graph
(better to read the transcripts) and look at the screen shots, I find)
http://www.plantpositive.com/3-the-jour ... -taubes-3/
http://www.plantpositive.com/4-the-jour ... -taubes-4/

2) Metanalysis mentioned by fatbird
Earlier in this thread we're given a link to a meta-analysis of epidemiological studies but the caveats included by the authors aren't included ie that this analysis had nothing to do with randomised controlled trials (which is the type of evidence ranked first when authorities like NICE create guidance)

Following this meta analysis, a symposium of experts, including 2 authors of the mentioned metanalysis gathered together to discuss what the other forms of evidence that we have suggests.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/93/4/684.full
It is too long to summarise and they noted gaps and places for further study. They felt that sat fat should not be replaced with refined carbohydrates and that there was evidence that differing fats, including different sat fats may have different effects. You might note that the healthy diet pattern is described as
" primarily plant-based and low in SFAs, but can include lean meats and low-fat dairy products in small-to-modest amounts"
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3) Recent evidence on the combination of lean protein (beef) and saturated fat (dairy)
Scientific investigation doesn't stand still:
Ron Krause (one of the meta-analyses authors went on to investigate the combination of fats and proteins. His first trial was reported in 2012 and looked at the difference between a diet high in beef with olive oil for the fat and another with beef and dairy. (ie a protein pus low sat fat and a protein plus high sat fat) He describes it as like a hamburger and a cheeseburger diet . These diets were relatively low in carbohydrate. Krause actually thought that this would mean that neither would raise CVD markers so was he admits, surprised by the result.

short newsreport
http://ctsi.ucsf.edu/news/about-ctsi/li ... rt-disease
longer interview
http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/04/ ... t-depends/
Both articles are worth reading because this study is the first attempting to go beyond saying this is good that is bad but towards defining a more nuanced approach.

4) Who recommends what? What expertise do they have ?
Neither, Dr Briffa (I can't find any papers of any sort written by him, just popular media) or Dwight Lundell ( see quackwatch) are experts in the field
Our doctors, and dietitians all over the world have to take their guidance from approved guidelines. These are often not completely up to date, it takes time to do this but they are evidence based and they take into account both the type and the quality of the evidence . That most of them are fairly similar is probably not surprising: the evidence is the same.
This. from Canada is the latest I know of. They don't seem to have discovered the evidence that suggests large amounts of saturated fat is always benign. I wonder why?
Perhaps they look beyond google and a few self publicists
The first link is to the summary on nutrition with the strength of evidence
. The second to the guidelines for patients.

http://guidelines.diabetes.ca/executivesummary/ch11
http://guidelines.diabetes.ca/CDACPG/me ... nglish.pdf
 
guys your kind words are much appreciated, i sure wasnt looking for compliments, its you guys that saved my life, its me who relies on you, ill stop sulking, and thinking im in an episode of eastenders lol,

best regards to all (but especially the low carbers) lol just kidding :lol:
 

Good man !


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best regards to all (but especially the low carbers) lol just kidding :lol:[/quote]

Well, I was going to say the same sentiments a above, but not anymore lol

Nice to see you back, you must of had your jelly fix

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just had 4 rashers of bacon in between 2 slices of live life bread, after an 8 mile run, thats enough to cheer anyone up :thumbup:
 
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