Posting on behalf of hubby

[PDR]

No, because I've just finished reading the actual papers rather than the reportage (plus a metastudy here) and they all say the same thing - they say that the EXCESSIVE consumption of fructose has negative consequences, where "excessive" is a number with a lower bound between 50 and 100g/day. The concerns expressed are not about the existence of fructose in the diet, but rather about the huge INCREASE in fructose consumption due to the economic advantages of HFCS in processed foods and soft drinks.

All the papers make a point of saying that there is no evidence of negative effects from "normal" fructose consumption from the fruit element of a healthily balanced diet, variously described as 15-25g/day. They also suggest that the data are equivocal for a total fructose consumption (that from fruit plus HFCS sweetners) in the region 25-40g/day - there doesn't seem to be any significant increase in negative consequences at these levels.

So now I consider my case. As I've said previously I have overhauled my diet. I no longer eat fruit, sweetened food or carbs. I read the labels on everything and as far as I can see the only thing I eat which may contain fructose is some of the salad dressings (and the amounts here are miniscule). So as far as I can see my consumption of fructose from food is probably somewhere around 2-3g/day (worst case estimate - I think it's much lower actually).

I only drink real coffee (can't stand instant), and I drink it black because I'm not a big fan of cow-juice (I often wonder what was actually going on in the mind of the first person who drank milk from a cow!). I used to add a teaspoon of nice brown sugar to a large mug of freshbrew, and I have now switched this to ~1/2tsp of fructose. I just spooned 50 serves of my normal 1/2tsp of fructose into a cup on the scales and found that my 1/2tsp is about 1.6g. I have 2-3 coffees a day, so let's call that 5g/day maximum. Let's add that to my worst-case estimate of other sources and we get a total of 8g/day. No study anywhere has indicated consumption at this level has any bad consequences.

So in summary it is true to suggest that evidence supports a concern over consuming high levels of fructose - amounts above 50g/day. But to extrapolate this into a view that consuming a single grain of fructose a year will kill all life on the planet is probably unjustified. There is a lot of hysterical blather on websites on this subject (as I found for aspartame), but if you read the actual papers you find they simply don't support those levels of hysteria.

So I'm sticking with fructose in my coffee!

€0.000005 supplied (YMMV),

PDR

 

[Guzzler]

Many people diagnosed with T2 are also told that there is some measure of fatty liver present which can lead to NAFLD (which can progress) so the second thing (the first is obvious, to bring down elevated bg) is to try to empty the liver of its fat stores. You may beleive that fructose doesn't raise bg but I'm just n=1 and my bg soars after having a normal portion of fruit e.g a medium sized apple or bananas and as for grapes... forget it.

 

[MarkR 2]

Thank you taking time to respond. I can say your advive is pretty much where we are at the moment. We have a
1. bg meter and repeat prescription for strips and lancets and we test 6x daily before and after each meal
2. Keeping a diary I cannot comprehend graphs but do I love a table so I table the date, time, by reading and carb intake.
3. We have shelved all pasta and rice Inc brown varieties. Limit bread to wholemeal thins and only every other day.
4. Hubby cannot drink fizzy pop at all regardless of variety. The preservatives mix badly with existing meds and he gets bad stomach.
5. He does have dark 75% + chocolate once a week if his after dinner by is below 7 and only has 25grams ( he does not have any will power but I have enough for the both of us and I'm a formidable force) He has had a 150g bar in the fridge for 3 weeks now and has only eaten 50g.
6. I've stocked up on high fat snack to hopefully curb his hunger while his body adjusts.

 

[MarkR 2]

Many people diagnosed with T2 are also told that there is some measure of fatty liver present which can lead to NAFLD (which can progress) so the second thing (the first is obvious, to bring down elevated bg) is to try to empty the liver of its fat stores. You may beleive that fructose doesn't raise bg but I'm just n=1 and my bg soars after having a normal portion of fruit e.g a medium sized apple or bananas and as for grapes... forget it.

So far hubbys by hasn't been effect much by fruit at all. I do measure what he has and a my most 2 small bananas in a week and 6 grapes per serving again twice weekly max. And as yet we've seen no spikes from these. His highest spike have been following shredded wheat for brekkie (nurses advice to eat) so they are a no no from now.
His daily bgs are fluctuating between the high 4's to the low 10's over the last 7 day with the 7 day average being 7.3. Initial bloods that prompted repeat testing was 24.4, 7 days later 12.2 and now at the above so numbers are going the right way.

 

[Guzzler]

So far hubbys by hasn't been effect much by fruit at all. I do measure what he has and a my most 2 small bananas in a week and 6 grapes per serving again twice weekly max. And as yet we've seen no spikes from these. His highest spike have been following shredded wheat for brekkie (nurses advice to eat) so they are a no no from now.
His daily bgs are fluctuating between the high 4's to the low 10's over the last 7 day with the 7 day average being 7.3. Initial bloods that prompted repeat testing was 24.4, 7 days later 12.2 and now at the above so numbers are going the right way.

Hubby may be more inulin sensitive than I am. Insulin resistance is highly individual so while some with T2 can have e.g a small portion of steel oats others cannot. My comment was directed at the member who beleives that fructose in smaller quantities is acceptable, my point is that some people with Diabetes are not able to tolerate it even in small quantities.

 

[Brunneria]

The sugars in fruit are quite quick to release. So testing at 2 hours may show nothing, while testing at 30, 45 or 60 mins may show a surprising result. Or not. We do vary tremendously, so there are no absolutes.

 

[PDR]

My comment was directed at the member who beleives that fructose in smaller quantities is acceptable

Actually I believe what I said was that it was acceptable for me in response to a suggestion that it was extremely UNacceptable for EVERYONE in any quantity, which I believe I have shown not to be the case.

my point is that some people with Diabetes are not able to tolerate it even in small quantities.

I wouldn't argue with that. But "some people" and "everyone" are not the same thing. Some people are lactose intollerent, but that doesn't mean that a morsel of cheese is lethal for everyone.

PDR

 

[xfieldok]

Consider why tennis player eat bananas during a match. It is because they need the energy immediately. I would seriously consider leaving the bananas and grapes for a couple of weeks and see if your numbers improve.

 

[rab5]

Actually I believe what I said was that it was acceptable for me in response to a suggestion that it was extremely UNacceptable for EVERYONE in any quantity, which I believe I have shown not to be the case.



I wouldn't argue with that. But "some people" and "everyone" are not the same thing. Some people are lactose intollerent, but that doesn't mean that a morsel of cheese is lethal for everyone.

PDR

This is a forum for people who have diabetes. So saying fructose is not something you should eat, on this forum does not include people without diabetes. I would imagine that is accepted. Fructose may well be alright in small doses the same as eating carbs may be alright in small doses. But for diabetics I would suggest that the cumulative effect is what got most of us here. I would always caution people on this forum to stay away from fructose, it is not essential and is of no use to your body or well being. It is not a requirement for your body like any other carb like food

 

[rab5]

So far hubbys by hasn't been effect much by fruit at all. I do measure what he has and a my most 2 small bananas in a week and 6 grapes per serving again twice weekly max. And as yet we've seen no spikes from these. His highest spike have been following shredded wheat for brekkie (nurses advice to eat) so they are a no no from now.
His daily bgs are fluctuating between the high 4's to the low 10's over the last 7 day with the 7 day average being 7.3. Initial bloods that prompted repeat testing was 24.4, 7 days later 12.2 and now at the above so numbers are going the right way.

Stay away from the following:
Potatoes
Grains
Sugar
Rice
Pasta

They are the main ones.... if you do that I am confident you lower his BG levels within days. I myself use the LCHF diet with IF thrown in for good measure. It has worked for me and many many others here. You can tweak it a bit to suit your own needs as required.

Good luck

You will beat this

 

[Guzzler]

This is a forum for people who have diabetes. So saying fructose is not something you should eat, on this forum does not include people without diabetes. I would imagine that is accepted. Fructose may well be alright in small doses the same as eating carbs may be alright in small doses. But for diabetics I would suggest that the cumulative effect is what got most of us here. I would always caution people on this forum to stay away from fructose, it is not essential and is of no use to your body or well being. It is not a requirement for your body like any other carb like food

I agree. At the risk of repeating myself, there are no vitamins or minerals in fruit which cannot be found in veggies. When trying to empty the liver of fat the exclusion of fructose is only going to be a benefit.

Gary Fettke puts it well in this short presentation.

 

[PDR]

So with no evidential basis whatsoever we are expected to take studies that show EXCESSIVE fructose consumption is bad to mean that fructose is poisonous in any amount?

Sorry, but sort of dogma makes no sense at all. As diabetics we have more than enough restrictions on what we can eat without making up additional ones just for the sake of it!

PDR

 

[Phoenix55]

@PDR the important thing is that you have found the way that works for you which is not the same as finding what will work for everyone. By testing, thus finding the pattern of food to result on the chart, you have found the foods and level of exercise you need but the general pattern is the testing and finding the links on the results chart. If you can tolerate a spoonful of fructose in coffee then good luck to you, I have never taken sugar in tea or coffee and so the advice of the DN to stop fell on deaf ears. The lesson for the OP is to get a meter by hook or by crook so that they find the pattern for the body they are concerned about, as a general rule we would advise avoiding anything with '..ose', but rules are made to be broken.

 

[xfieldok]

You are right at the beginning of this and you will get loads of information and some will appear to be contradictory. You have to find out what works for you.

Personally I wouldn't touch fructose with a bargepole, it goes straight to the liver and mine is working overtime as it is, thank you.

You might want to download the app mySugr. I find it very helpful and after about a weeks worth of data it will give you an estimated HbA1c. I find it highly motivating.

 

[PDR]

@PDR the important thing is that you have found the way that works for you which is not the same as finding what will work for everyone.

So in summary - anything I say based on actual evidence is clearly a special case which only applies to me and my mutated metabolism, where anything said by others with no evidential support must be the general rule. Yes, that makes a lot of sense...



PDR

 

[rab5]

So in summary - anything I say based on actual evidence is clearly a special case which only applies to me and my mutated metabolism, where anything said by others with no evidential support must be the general rule. Yes, that makes a lot of sense...



PDR

I think you will have to realise that people dont have to agree with your point of view. We are all different. Thats what makes these forums great. The ability to give your opinion on what you believe to be the right choice.

Whilst I say that we are entitled to our own opinions we are not entitled to our own facts. I have not read every study you posted but I did read that EXCESSIVE fructose appears to be the problem. You have to understand that people (me included) dont much care to be told its ok to eat fructose but not too much, I would rather just not eat it, as it can cause problems with your liver etc etc . I would suggest especially on this forum that members would be very careful about putting any level of fructose in their system no matter how small.

You do understand that surely.

PS Its not a competition to see who knows the most. We are all learning.

 

[Jaylee]

Fruit... Yes, i'm T1 & can bolus for it. (which kind of muddies the water on this topic)

However. I've treated hypos with grapes or banana...
Pure juice is even faster hitting for me than a "can of can't" (Coke.)

 

[PDR]

Whilst I say that we are entitled to our own opinions we are not entitled to our own facts. I have not read every study you posted but I did read that EXCESSIVE fructose appears to be the problem.

Which is precisely what I said - multiple times, so I'm not sure where this suggest I am introducing "my own facts".

You have to understand that people (me included) dont much care to be told its ok to eat fructose but not too much,

Some do, some don't. That's rather the point. I'm like that with chocolate, bread and rice - I can't do "moderation" for these things so I just avoid them completely. But that's a very different thing to talking about less than 2g of fructose 2-3 times a day in coffee. I've not seen anyone "binge coffeeing" just to get fixes of fructose. At that level of consumption it has (according to the actual evidence - other peoples' facts, not mine) no more or less concerns than any of the other sweeteners. I see people saying we should stick to a particular sweetener because it's a plant extract that's "all natural", so it must be good. That's amusing - hemlock and aconitium (wolfsbane) are natural plant extracts after all...

I would rather just not eat it,

And that's fine - you have a strategy that you've chosen to suit you, as I have with chocolate, bread and ferraris. But that doesn't inherently mean that eating fructose in any quantity must be dangerous. Others can choose different strategies - we are allowed to have different opinions where the available facts don't contradict them (as in this case).

as it can cause problems with your liver etc etc . I would suggest especially on this forum that members would be very careful about putting any level of fructose in their system no matter how small.

...and there we go again! The available facts only indicate that it "can cause problems with your liver etc" when it is consumed in excessive quantities. There are no studies that I have found showing evidence that it is harmful in quantities that are nearly 2 orders of magnitude less. You can have your opinion and construct your strategy to suit your characteristics. But people didn't say that - they said "you should avoid fructose like the plague" as if it were an actual fact that it is poisonous (which it isn't).

People get hysterical about things - they here things which were never actually said. Someone on here referenced two websites which cited studies to support a claim that Fructose was an evil plot by the despotic food industry (to what end wasn't clear), even though the actual studies cited didn't say what the websites claimed they said. And that's the point. People are still hysterical about the long-disproven concerns over MMR vaccines. I've seen people suggest that diabetics should avoid cheaper whiskys which use caramel as a dye - although the amounts are absolutely miniscule and if people are drinking enough whisky for it to even register they have far more significant things to worry about (like the 10 bottles a day whisky habit which is needed to make the caramel dose an issue).

Please learn to separate personal opinions and strategies from evidence-based advice!

PDR

 

[rab5]

Which is precisely what I said - multiple times, so I'm not sure where this suggest I am introducing "my own facts".



Some do, some don't. That's rather the point. I'm like that with chocolate, bread and rice - I can't do "moderation" for these things so I just avoid them completely. But that's a very different thing to talking about less than 2g of fructose 2-3 times a day in coffee. I've not seen anyone "binge coffeeing" just to get fixes of fructose. At that level of consumption it has (according to the actual evidence - other peoples' facts, not mine) no more or less concerns than any of the other sweeteners. I see people saying we should stick to a particular sweetener because it's a plant extract that's "all natural", so it must be good. That's amusing - hemlock and aconitium (wolfsbane) are natural plant extracts after all...



And that's fine - you have a strategy that you've chosen to suit you, as I have with chocolate, bread and ferraris. But that doesn't inherently mean that eating fructose in any quantity must be dangerous. Others can choose different strategies - we are allowed to have different opinions where the available facts don't contradict them (as in this case).



...and there we go again! The available facts only indicate that it "can cause problems with your liver etc" when it is consumed in excessive quantities. There are no studies that I have found showing evidence that it is harmful in quantities that are nearly 2 orders of magnitude less. You can have your opinion and construct your strategy to suit your characteristics. But people didn't say that - they said "you should avoid fructose like the plague" as if it were an actual fact that it is poisonous (which it isn't).

People get hysterical about things - they here things which were never actually said. Someone on here referenced two websites which cited studies to support a claim that Fructose was an evil plot by the despotic food industry (to what end wasn't clear), even though the actual studies cited didn't say what the websites claimed they said. And that's the point. People are still hysterical about the long-disproven concerns over MMR vaccines. I've seen people suggest that diabetics should avoid cheaper whiskys which use caramel as a dye - although the amounts are absolutely miniscule and if people are drinking enough whisky for it to even register they have far more significant things to worry about (like the 10 bottles a day whisky habit which is needed to make the caramel dose an issue).

Please learn to separate personal opinions and strategies from evidence-based advice!

PDR

Whatever. Your the winner. Your the smartest. Go to the top of the class

I’m finished with you. You remind of the right wing religious fanatics we have here in Northern Ireland

If I continue the MODS will shaft me

 

[lucylocket61]

As someone with several health issue, please be careful to balance the needs of your husbands other health issues. I have to have some wholemeal bread or similar in my daily diet, regardless of the carbs ingested, to avoid further complications in my other issues.

I am sharing my personal experience, you may find that taking the carbs out of your husbands diet is a safe thing for you to do. I am simply highlighting that you may need to proceed with caution when changing his diet.

Best wishes.